Dash 8 tipped up!?

[planecrazy]

This is a screen shot off a video I shot 15mins ago, not great light conditions so had a
little play with the image on my computer, don't know how to make the props blury,
bit soft but surprised by the quality considering the light and that it's off a video!?

The conditions a little Nasty, gusting cross wind today, the nor-easter rolls over a hill
behind me, note the wind sock, not only a cross wind but rotors both above and behind,
he did well getting her down without a bounce!

[johnnyfalcon]

Mini Wellington

[Mustang51]

Ref Wellington. I do not know how many times I have flown in and out of there but not once have I ever experienced bad turbulence or cross winds. I guess my Karma must be having an effect

[kiwithrottlejockey]

Dec 6, 2017 14:10:44 GMT 12 Mustang51 said:

Ref Wellington. I do not know how many times I have flown in and out of there but not once have I ever experienced bad turbulence or cross winds. I guess my Karma must be having an effect

You're missing out on the fun, Peter.

Flying into Wellington when the nor'wester is howling in huge gusts over the Newlands Ridge is waaaaaay better than any fairground ride.

I call that “getting my money's worth” when you get that sort of arrival into Wellington.

I recall one flight from Napier into such conditions back in 2011 in a Dash 8. I was expecting the usual “Wellington runway dance” before the aircraft settled on terra-firma, but this particular pilot slammed the propellors into reverse pitch a fraction of a second before the mainwheels connected with the runway. The result was a solid thump as the wings stopped providing lift to the aircraft and it became glued to the runway. The aeroplane slowed so quickly, that the pilot turned off the runway at the first taxiway we came to. But what really cracked me up was the slightly sarcastic tone in the flight attendant's voice as she said over the PA, “Well, I guess that must mean we've arrived in Wellington!”

Another rather interesting (and absolutely TRUE) tale concerns a flight from Auckland to Wellington in an A320 a few short years ago. The Captain was Mike Tomoana (formerly of RNZAF Red Checkers fame as well as captain of the infamous Metalica “Bogan Flight”). There was a slight delay in Auckland due to missing passengers who had checked in, then failed to show at the gate, so while we were waiting, Mike appeared from the cockpit and took over the cabin attendant's handset at the front of the cabin to personally introduce himself, explain why the flight was delayed, and brief the passengers about the anticipated rough arrival in Wellington due to gusty nor'west winds (as well as informing us that the co-pilot would be flying, so to blame him if the arrival was really rough). After filling in the rest of the waiting time with a few really funny jokes, the missing passengers showed up, so Mike passed the handset back to the head cabin attendant and disappeared back into the cockpit. I was seated in one of the two mid-cabin emergency exit rows. Also in the same row as me was two Boeing 737 flight-deck crews dead-heading to Wellington. During the extremely turbulent approach into Wellington, I glanced along the row and noticed that both of the captains and one of the co-pilots were tightly clenching the armrests with white knuckles and their eyes were tightly screwed shut. I thought that was rather amusing … I guess they didn't mind being at the controls in those conditions, but obviously were rather nervous passengers when Wellington was “having one of those days” and somebody else was flying the bus. Makes you wonder, eh? I thought about making a smart-arse comment, but decided it was probably best to keep my mouth shut.

[Dave Homewood]

Dec 6, 2017 14:10:44 GMT 12 Mustang51 said:

Ref Wellington. I do not know how many times I have flown in and out of there but not once have I ever experienced bad turbulence or cross winds. I guess my Karma must be having an effect

Count your blessings. It's a horrible airport on a rough day. The worst I recall was a Friendship full of mostly Asian tourists screaming at the top of their lungs as the aircraft lunged and plummeted about the sky on descent.

I also recall once leaving Hamilton Airport in clear, calm blue skies and 29C, and landing an hour later in Wellington where it was wet, freezing cold, and blowing a gale to the point it was hard to stand up crossing the tarmac. Like the city it serves, it's a bit of a hole on a wet, windy day.

[kiwithrottlejockey]

Oh, well....it could be worse (or more fun if you love thrill arrivals in Wellington like I do).

I can recall Maurice McGreal telling the tale in one of his books of alighting on six-foot waves in a southerly at Evans Bay during the Solent flying-boat days.

That would have been ever more thrilling than the “Wellington Runway Dance” passengers get these days in the howling nor'wester.

[Dave Homewood]

Six foot high waves sounds exceedingly dangerous. Those aircraft were not designed for rough water.

[kiwithrottlejockey]

The way Maurice McGreal described it in his book, the “old school” Captain he was working with used to dump the rear of the keel on the foward side of a wave and the Solent would firmly sit in the trough between that wave and the next one foward of it without any skipping whatsoever. I guess those old hands knew a thing or two about landing Short flying-boats in big seas that the folks who wrote the operating manuals (and those he said you couldn't do it) didn't know, eh?

[Dave Homewood]

Well Maurice himself flew Sunderlands in wartime but they did not land Sunderlands in the open sea, not in wartime nor in peacetime. The rough water would have ripped the floats off the aircraft and likely cause catastrophe.

[kiwithrottlejockey]

Dec 6, 2017 19:14:52 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Well Maurice himself flew Sunderlands in wartime but they did not land Sunderlands in the open sea, not in wartime nor in peacetime. The rough water would have ripped the floats off the aircraft and likely cause catastrophe.

Yep....that used to happen in Wellington occasionally while alighting in big seas....

---

The weather can be wild in Wellington Harbour at times. ZK-AMM “Ararangi” with a damaged port float on 18th October 1950.

---

A replacement port float and outboard propellor for ZK-AMM “Ararangi” on a truck at Evans Bay Yacht Club on 19th October 1950.

---

ZK-AMM “Ararangi” on Evans Bay with a missing starboard float and damaged port float following a landing mishap on 18th October 1951.

---

ZK-AMM “Ararangi” berthed at the still uncompleted braby pontoon undergoing repairs on 19th October 1951 after losing a float the day before, with ZK-AMO “Aranui” moored out in the bay.

---

EDIT: The hotlinks from those photographs to their sources at The National Library of NZ website were broken due to the fact the originals have been moved since I first formatted those images, but I've fixed them now.

As a matter of interest, at another aviation messageboard forum (The Flying Boat Forum), somebody posted a photograph of THREE of TEAL's Short S.45A Solent Mk.4 flying-boats at Evans Bay after one of them ripped a float off while alighting in big seas. Until I saw that photograph, I would never have believed that three of the Solents would ever have been at Wellington at the same time.

[Dave Homewood]

And that explains why they went solely to landplanes.

[kiwithrottlejockey]

Well, almost....TEAL continued to fly ZK-AMO to Tahiti for just over six years after switching to landplanes on their other routes and ditching the Wellington service for a few years until the new Wellington Airport opened. I would surmise that if they hadn't retained the flying-boat service to Tahiti until 1960, then AMO would have been sold off overseas like the other airworthy Solents (possibly also being cut up for scrap in Portugal) and MOTAT wouldn't have had their prize aviation possession today.

[planewriting]

Dec 6, 2017 19:14:52 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Well Maurice himself flew Sunderlands in wartime but they did not land Sunderlands in the open sea, not in wartime nor in peacetime. The rough water would have ripped the floats off the aircraft and likely cause catastrophe.

On what information are you basing your above comment Dave? Sunderlands did land in the open sea without damage. I am reminded of one such instance when ML794 on delivery to New Zealand landed off Bream Bay on 2 December 1944. My father, flying ML792, then coaxed a nordo launch to bring the Sunderland safely to Bream Bay. The occurence took place after a Lodestar collided with the Sunderland over the Hen and Chicken Islands. I also recall a successful landing in the South China Sea by an RNZAF Sunderland but cannot recall the reason or when.

[Dave Homewood]

I am basing it on specifically asking that of several pilots and crew in the past year who flew them. It would be a VERY rare event and necessitating an emergency of some sort to make the crew put down on the open sea, according to all those I have asked. The risk was way too high.

The Catalina was more suitable for open sea landing but again they did not risk it if the swell was up. That is why a couple of pilots got awards for open sea rescues in WWII, they were risking themselves unduly to pick up others.

[Dave Homewood]

I always assumed that the Sunderlands did just that, alighted to pick up people in dinghies, etc. But no, they did exactly what the Orions do, circle and divert shipping to the rescue.

[nuuumannn]

That's a nice pic, Planecrazy, check out the windsock on the hill; horizontal = big cross wind.

[Mustang51]

Well "Windy" Wellington may not yet have lived up to its reputation but I can say that the only time I seriously thought I was going to shuffle off this mortal coil in an aircraft was in a flight in NZ over the Cook Strait. I clearly remember nuns in the seat ahead of mine almost yelling out their rosary, overheads opened with their contents spilling out, some oxygen masks popping out and people being literally tossed around in their seats with the aircraft pitching and rolling like Mr.Brooker's MX during one of his spirited displays. Even when we had the double engine failure in the Ventura that did not worry me but this flight did

[Dave Homewood]

Yep, the Strait can be rough. And on other days it's like a placid lake.

[planecrazy]

Taking this further off topic, I can remember many moons ago as a young lad doing a Cook Straight ferry crossing
we left from Picton and they had this small crane on the fore deck putting these plates over the front windows.

Asked my Dad what was going on and was told you'll find out soon enough, we went out into the straight and
turned hard to starboard went way out to the east with people screaming and spewing into a massive swell.

Always remember when she turned side on and rolled like crazy a couple of times, she almost surfed into
Wellington, it was so long ago the Wahine was still lying on her side in the harbour. I seem to remember the
Wahine was there for along time, am I correct in saying people used to tie their boats to her and fish off the
hull?

Many years later did the trip with my wife and I had talked the crossing up as being so rough for weeks, when
we eventually did the journey it was like lake Cooks Straight!

[kiwithrottlejockey]

Yep, these days, the Interislander and Blue Bridge are run by wusses.

I can remember the days when the old rail ferries used to sail in ALL conditions, no matter how bad it got.

On at least one occasion, I was on the Arahura crossing to Picton and the waves were so huge that the ship was rising right up on one wave, then thumping down into the trough on the other side, then plowing straight through the next wave, then rising up over and thumping down, then through the next wave. Wooooohooooo....that was fun!! And the ship was rolling as well. A group of us (actually heading for Warbirds over Wanaka) were standing up in the foward lounge holding onto the rails and watching it all through those huge foward windows. About halfway across the strait, we passed the Aratika heading the other way. As it rolled over a huge wave, we got to see the rudder and propellers come right out of the water.

I had some real fun crossings of Cook Strait in the original Aramoana and Aranui rail ferries too. Including getting lifted right off my feet on one crossing on the Aranui. During that same crossing a steward got thrown the length of the cafetaria, athough he picked himself up and carried on with his duties.

These days, they wimp out when it gets rough.