steveb
Flying Officer
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Mar 21, 2018 11:00:36 GMT 12
I am trying to find information on an accident involving two B-17Es from the 394th Bomb Squadron and an unknown number of U.S. Navy aircraft. Presumably the accident took place at Nadi between 25 December 1942 and 3 January 1943. The 394th had recently re-equipped with seven ex-19th Bomb Group B-17Es in Hawaii and was in Fiji prior to beginning operations from Espiritu Santo and Guadalcanal. There are two versions of the story: the first states that three Navy fighters were taking off abreast at dusk. One forged ahead, creating a cloud of dust that caused the other two to veer off the runway and strike two parked B-17s, One tore the right wing tip off a B-17 and crashed into its fuselage, the other “knocked the right landng gear out from under” a B-17 named Calamity Jane causing it to collapse, damaging the starboard engines. The second (and I think more reliable) version of the story comes from Calamity Jane’s co-pilot: he says that the Navy planes were landing in a crosswind and one groundlooped and crashed into Calamity Jane’s right landing gear, causing the B-17 to fall on the right wing, bending it up. (Temporary repairs enabled the plane to be flown to Noumea with a skeleton crew). Summing up, one of the planes involved was definitely 41-2440 Calamity Jane, the other, more seriously damaged, B-17 is not yet identified. The Navy planes have been reported as being from USS Saratoga but I don’t know if that’s correct or not. Any information on this accident would be valuable – the exact date, the USN squadron involved, the extent of the damage to the B-17s and the identity of the second B-17. Thanks!
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Post by angelsonefive on Mar 22, 2018 10:20:00 GMT 12
Hi Steve,
Joe Baugher's USAAF Serials has the following :
"2440 (42nd BS) ditched off Duma Point Sept 24, 1942 due to fuel exhaustion. Crew captured and executed. Wreck is still located there 60 feet underwater in fairly good condition. Also listed as reclamation completed Jul 15, 1946, and being named Calamity Jane."
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steveb
Flying Officer
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Mar 22, 2018 16:44:59 GMT 12
Unfortunately that Baugher information is way off . . . the B-17E that ditched on 24 September 1942 was 41-2420. Calamity Jane survived and returned to the U.S., where it was scrapped in 1946.
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steveb
Flying Officer
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Mar 24, 2018 7:21:26 GMT 12
Quick question - does anyone know if there is a log of aircraft movements in and out of Nadi for the period November 1942 to January 1943? If I could establish exactly when 41-2440 was there it would be a tremendous help.
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Post by davidd on Mar 24, 2018 12:29:29 GMT 12
I have never seen a log of United States aircraft movements (with a/c identification, apart from flight numbers) in and out of wartime fields in Fiji, although I have seen logs of arrivals and departures of types (and usually where they originated, or were bound for). I do not recall ever seeing very much on aircraft accidents, although have dates for a few P-39 accidents, as well as a few overdue aircraft. Movements through Nadi were frequent, as it was the major aerodrome on the island (for land planes at least, and certainly for the Americans), although large flying boats were routed through Laucala Bay. Most records I have are for Nadi, although I do have one continuous record right through 1943, but as usual, just type and date, and where to/from, no identification. David D
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steveb
Flying Officer
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Mar 24, 2018 13:08:29 GMT 12
Thanks David, I don't want to waste your time, but does your information show late 1942 B-17 movements? Perhaps if I can find an occasion when say seven B-17s arrived at Nadi from Hawaii late December 1942 and five departed for Espiritu Santo within a few days it would almost certainly narrow the field.
I know that 41-2440 was patched up at Nadi and after a local test flight it was flown to Noumea with a "skeleton crew" for further repair.
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Post by davidd on Mar 26, 2018 17:39:06 GMT 12
Steveb, How about this for starters? Twelve B-17s flew in to Nadi from Noumea (New Caledonia) on afternoon of 25/10/42, and (presume same) 12 B-17s departed Nadi for (American?) Samoa on morning of 1/11/42. This seems to have been the only large movement of B-17s at this time, but the details available for this period are quite extensive, and it takes a long time to read through them all. However, it seems that to find anything of real value re this particular aircraft, you will have to obtain a copy of this aircraft's official history from the USAF archives, although right off the top of my head, cannot think where this repository is located - perhaps some kind Board member could provide Steveb of the correct location, although it should not be too hard to locate by a bit of judicious googling. As you already have the serial number, it should not be difficult to track the travels of this aircraft from the files, although whether it was allocated to the actual operating squadron, or to the overarching Group HQ I have no idea. It may even have been on the strength of the B-17 squadron located at Nadi in 1943, although offhand I do not know the identity of this unit.
Incidentally movements of quite large numbers of aircraft are recorded in the file I have on the subject, including B-24s, P-38s, and even quite large groups of C-47s (and relatives), and sometimes small Navy seaplanes (OS2U Kingfishers), as well as PBY-5A Catalinas.
Have just located the last (recorded) instance of the USAAF B-17s being used for "frontal patrols" from Nadi, which was by three aircraft on 11/6/43. However routine "frontal patrols" continued to be flown daily without pause until the beginning of November 1943.
The type of aircraft which took over these patrols was the B-26 Marauder, first recorded as such from 21st June 1943, although possibly used a little earlier (the intervening patrols were flown by unspecified types of aircraft). B-17s are never mentioned again after the 11/6/43 missions, and were presumably transferred to another location.
The final "frontal patrols" were last flown on 1/11/43 by three RNZAF Hudsons, and after this they were cancelled entirely. B-25s were also used for last few months to fly these patrols, supplementing the B-26s. Hudsons were first used on these patrols on 2/7/43, but these were rarely used, and the B-25s began taking over from the B-26s from the 4/7/43, with last B-26s being noted on 15/7/43. Almost invariably, regardless of aircraft type used, daily frontal patrols from Nadi were undertaken by THREE aircraft per day. David D
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steveb
Flying Officer
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Mar 27, 2018 9:58:15 GMT 12
Many thanks David. I have the aircraft record cards for these planes but they are not much help . . . the one for 41-2440 is unfortunately typical. Anyway, that flight of twelve B-17s that arrived on 25 October 1942 was the 93rd Bomb Squadron, homeward bound from Australia . . . B-17Es 41-2438, 41-2440, 41-2453, 41-2486, 41-2489, 41-2630, 41-2632, 41-2642, 41-2644, 41-2658, 41-2668 and 41-2669. Captain Maurice Horgan was the pilot of 41-2440 on that flight, and it was one of the seven planes that were held over in Hawaii, overhauled and reassigned to the 394th Bomb Squadron, 5th Bomb Group. The 394th was the squadron that flew sea searches from Nadi, and their seven planes should have arrived as a unit in November or December 1942 – it’s unclear from the records I have. I assume they began operations immediately. The 394th sent five planes to Santo on 3 January 1943 and they flew bombing missions from Guadalcanal before returning to Nadi on 20 January. As you say, they were based there flying patrols until June 1943, when they moved up to Guadalcanal. I guess that accident that I’m trying to pinpoint could have occurred any time between late November 1942 and the end of the year.
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Post by davidd on Mar 27, 2018 22:15:37 GMT 12
steveb, See what you mean about the USAAF history cards, just list bases, no units! What good is that! Also large gaps in the running record. However you seem to have an excellent general knowledge of the squadrons operating these aircraft, so do the unit records provide additional information, or is they as erratic as the a/c history card? Best of luck! The only reason that the RNZAF had records was that they were still at Nadi for much of this time (it was originally a small RNZAF airfield, but was later totally rebuilt by the New Zealand govt to be a modern field capable of operating aircraft up to B-17/B-24 size, at the expense of the US govt). The RNZAF HQ unit there seemed to be keen to record all the comings and goings of American aircraft, but normally NO serial numbers, NO units mentioned, and NO unit commanders either! Still, better than nothing, and many thanks for the additional information on the Squadron movement under consideration. Dave D
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steveb
Flying Officer
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Mar 28, 2018 7:24:17 GMT 12
Hi Dave - sadly the only available record of the 394th Bomb Squadron for that period is seven typed pages covering the operations they flew from Santo and Guadalcanal between 3 and 20 January 1943.
Luckily I’ve been able to establish that the accident in question took place a bit after 8:00 p.m. on 25 November 1942. It involved two Douglas Dauntlesses from USS Saratoga’s Scouting Squadron 6 and the two parked Flying Fortresses. There were no fatalities but varying degrees of damage to all four aircraft.
I'd be interested to know if you have a record of a single B-17 leaving Nadi for Tontouta over the week or so after 25 November 1942. If so, it would likely be Calamity Jane.
Also interested to know if a flight of five to seven B-17s arrived at Nadi from Hawaii* in the week or so before 25 November.
Thanks!
*Flight originated at Bellows Field but I guess the B-17s were actually arriving from Canton Island.
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Post by davidd on Apr 4, 2018 19:20:07 GMT 12
steveb, Don't know if your aircraft is in here somewhere, but best I can do under the circumstances! I will list all the B-17 movements in the log for period of 3 weeks to give you an idea of the movements during this period; however there were dozens of other movements, in and out, involving mostly B-24s and C-87, plus PBY-5As, PBM-3s, PB2Y-2s and -3s, also RNZAF Hudsons, plus one Singapore III 4-engined biplane flying boat! Note that normally the only indication of time of arrival/departure in this log is simply AM or PM (morning or afternoon). It may also be of interest to note that a total of 251 B-17s arrived at Nandi in 1942, with just 240 departing, which probably indicates that perhaps 11 were still at Nandi at end of year. The B-17 was running neck and neck with PBY Catalina arrivals (256) and departures (250). However most common type running through Fiji during 1942 was the B-24 (312 arrivals, 313 departures), with its transport variant (C-87) totalling 77 arrivals and ditto departures. The Navy version (PB4Y-1) only amounted to two arrivals and two departures. Other more important transients were the B-26 (112 arrivals, 97 departures), and B-25 (127 arrivals, 126 departures), and what is called the C-49 (but I suspect the C-47!) with 99 arrivals and ditto departures. Next in descending order was the Coronado flying boat, in PB2Y-2 and -3 variants (probably most transport variants), with 73 arrivals, ditto departures, and the slightly smaller Martin PBM-3 flying boat (84 arrivals, 83 departures, probably all transports). Nine C-60s (Lodestars) came and went, plus just one C-33 and two C-50s.
Here are the B-17 log entries:
Nil B-17s on 25th, 26th Nov 1942.
One B-17 arrived Nandi from Espiritu Santo AM of 27th Nov.
One B-17 departed Nandi for Canton AM of 28th Nov, one arrived Nandi from E/Santo, and one from E/Santo, both PM of 28th Nov.
One B-17 departed Nandi for Tutuila (Samoa) AM of 29th Nov.
One B-17 arrived from Noumea (New Caledonia) with General Harmon aboard, PM of 30th Nov.
Two B-17s departed Nandi for Tutuila AM of 1st Dec.
Nil B-17 movements 2nd Dec.
One B-17 departed Nandi for Tonga (along with one RNZAF Hudson) with General Harmon and Brigadier General Breeze aboard, AM of 3rd Dec.
One B-17 arrived Nandi from Espiritu Santo PM of 4th Dec, plus one from Tonga with Vice Admiral Colhoun and Major General Harmon aboard (presume latter same as aircraft above).
One B-17 departed Nandi for Noumea with Major General Harmon aboard, plus another B-17 for Samoa (both in AM, 5th December), presume former same as aircraft above. Note, it was probably General Harmon's aircraft which reported an unidentified submarine @ 2150 hours Z/4th at position 19.07S, 173.18E on course of 060 degrees, whilst en route Nandi to Noumea.
One B-17 arrived Nandi from Espiritu Santo PM of 6th Dec.
Nil B-17 movements on 7th, 8th Dec.
One B-17 departed Nandi AM of 9th Dec for Tutuila, for Samoa.
Nil B-17 movements 10th - 12th Dec.
One B-17 and one B-24 arrived Nandi PM of 13th Dec, from Canton.
As for five to seven B-17s arriving the week prior to 25th Nov, how about this lot.
PM of 18th Nov 1942, five B-17s and one C-87 arrived Nandi from Canton, with one B-24 arriving from PDG (New Caledonia, and another B-24 from Noumea (presume actually Tontouta). Another B-17 arrived from Canton next day (19th Nov) in PM, as did eight B-26s from Espiritu Santo. One B-17 departed Nandi in PM of 20th Nov for PDG (New Caledonia), and on PM of 21st Nov, another B-17 arrived at Nandi from Canton. Yet another B-17 arrived at Nandi, but this time from Espiritu Santo, on 22nd Nov in PM. A B-17 departed Nandi 23rd Nov in AM for Tutuila (Samoa).
Hope these prove to be of some interest.
David D
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Post by isc on Apr 4, 2018 21:44:41 GMT 12
It is possible that there were some C-49s, these were Wright Cyclone powered DC-3/C-47, the USAAF had 138 of them. isc
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steveb
Flying Officer
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Apr 5, 2018 12:08:05 GMT 12
Many thanks Dave, I really appreciate your taking the time to provide all that information.
Those five B-17s that arrived on 18 November would be the bulk of the 394th Bomb Squadron, and perhaps the next two arrivals from Canton were stragglers from the seven-plane formation that left Hawaii on 15 November. Those seven planes were 41-2440 Calamity Jane, 41-2630 Oklahoma Sooner, 41-2632 Crock O'Crap, 41-2642, 41-2644, 41-2658 and 41-2668.
The co-pilot of the damaged Calamity Jane implied that the crew members were "so good at making repairs" that the pilot, co-pilot and navigator were very soon able to fly the patched-up B-17 to the depot at Noumea. It would seem that wasn't exactly the way it happened.
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Post by davidd on Apr 6, 2018 7:11:58 GMT 12
isc, Yes, it looks as though the C-49s were genuine, it is just that I always assumed that when the C-47s started to appear from production lines at the beginning of 1942 (probably late in 1941) that all those conscripted aircraft (C-48s to C-52s) would have been swamped out by the newcomers. However C-47s DO begin to appear in the Nandi log later in 1942 (about September I think), so obviously those conscripted aircraft were all that were available to be rushed to multiple war fronts earlier in the year, to India/Burma, South Pacific and Australia, China, and Alaska/Aleutians, North Africa, as well as the UK a little later. David D
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Post by isc on Apr 6, 2018 14:10:42 GMT 12
They probably got sent to war zones, maybe with the hope that they might not come back, or at least get there hours up as soon as possible so the aircraft like the C-47 could fly on it's own and simplify the maintainance/stores aas far as the engines went. isc
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steveb
Flying Officer
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on May 17, 2018 7:01:15 GMT 12
I’m back with another question about the Fiji B-17s.
One of the 394th Bomb Squadron’s navigators recorded a 50-minute flight from Nadi to Nausori in a B-17E on 19 December 1942.
There’s no return flight shown so the plane must have been flown out by another crew, but how much later and to where I don’t know.
I’m curious about the purpose of that flight. What was at Nausori at that time?
Thanks.
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Post by davidd on May 17, 2018 9:26:55 GMT 12
steveb No. 4 GR Sqdn (about 12 Hudsons), No. 5 GR Sqdn (BR Flight of nine Vincents), plus a few DH Dragon Rapides, and at least one DH 86 (4 engines), also a DH 60 Moth, and maybe a DH84. Dave D
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steveb
Flying Officer
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on May 17, 2018 13:54:11 GMT 12
Thanks Dave D, I guess that one will remain a mystery.
One more if I may . . . sometime early (February-March?) 1943 there was a severe weather alert for Fiji, described in an intelligence report as a hurricane.
At first it was intended to tie the B-17s down and weather the storm at Nadi, but then it was decided that it would be better to move the entire 394th squadron - at that stage maybe 10 to 12 B-17s - to American Samoa. That flight was completed successfully and those planes returned to Nadi as a group "three days later".
In the event the worst weather passed well north of Fiji, although there were strong winds and rain.
Anyway, it would be a great help if I could establish the dates of those two formation flights between Nadi and Samoa.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 7, 2022 9:45:12 GMT 12
Hi Steve, I wonder if this photo is of interest, just posted to the Air FOrce Museum of New Zealand page: ALB1717241045 Image from the Eric Maple Lewis personal collection. USAAF B17 Flying Fortress landing(?), believed to be a Nausori, Fiji. LINK
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Post by saratoga on Jan 7, 2022 10:02:48 GMT 12
That's a good image showing the early B-17E model Sperry remote belly turret and vision bubble,also the small vision windows just above the bubble.
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