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Post by shorty on Feb 12, 2019 13:53:25 GMT 12
The plane "that built Queenstown'' and is now lying derelict in Bangladesh might be brought back to the Lakes District. Mt Cook Airlines' Hawker Siddeley 748 ZK-CWJ has been added to the shopping list of the group trying to retrieve and restore the passenger aircraft from New Zealand's aviation past.
The 51-year-old twin turbo prop, 50-seat airliner is owned by Bismallah Airlines but Paul Brennan, of the Bring Our Birds Home group, said yesterday the airline seemed keen to negotiate a sale.
"This is a very important artefact of, particularly, the South Island's tourism evolution.''
He considered the aircraft responsible for the development of Queenstown's tourism industry.
"In the Christchurch and Queenstown area they are very famous planes - probably built Queenstown in the end.''
Mr Brennan said the aircraft was "not worth very much'' in its present condition.
Before the plane was delivered to New Zealand in 1968, it flew, in Mt Cook colours, at the Farnborough Airshow in Britain but most of its 66,000 flights were made in New Zealand.
As the Bangladesh airline had spares for the plane, Mr Brennan believed it might be possible to fly it back to New Zealand.
"It's missing a rudder, it probably needs some work on the engines ... everything's affected by long storage.
"But they are a hardy plane.''
Mr Brennan said he had also "done a deal'' with the Cuban government to secure a former Air New Zealand DC10 now parked at Havana Airport where it is used for training firefighters and anti-terrorism police.
"All I have to do is to find an aircraft that is about to be scrapped and instead of having it flown to the desert to be munched up, fly it to Havana.
"And then we can swap it with the DC 10.
"We'll find a way of doing it.''
From Otago Daily Times 12 Feb 2019
Dreams are free!
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Post by l29 on Feb 12, 2019 20:20:53 GMT 12
So are you calling him a dreamer?
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Post by shorty on Feb 13, 2019 6:36:37 GMT 12
Yep, the logistics of returning a non flyable DC 10, a DC 8, an Electra and a 748 to NZ from their current locations without a major sponsor/benefactor is eye watering stuff. I worked on that 748 (and the rest of the MCA fleet) for 15 years so have a "a bit of an idea" what it would involve as well as being involved with smaller aircraft recoveries from PNG
All power to him but I won't be holding my breath
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Post by denysjones on Feb 14, 2019 20:10:05 GMT 12
I'll stick my neck out here...
It's now two years since our friend launched BoBH and in that time we've seen all sorts of posts about DC-8, DC-10, B737, B767, B747, and Electra a/c that supposedly are in various to advanced stages of acquisition negotiations (some so far advanced that quotes use terms like "our" in respect of them) but not once have we seen any conclusive details of a settled agreement on any one a/c and hence revelation of agreed purchase costs.
As a result of that there has been no declaration of funds required, proposed funding schema, nor initiation of fundraising.
Equally there have been no details in the same vein of transportation costs and same said fundraising, leading to not a single airframe moving anywhere remotely in the direction of NZ.
For people like me, with experience in repatriating a/c and components, to believe this is a credible organisation I would expect by now a total end to end cost declaration and funding schema for just one a/c to have been made public and the funding campaign underway.
Now we suddenly have yet another a/c becoming the current hot favourite for attentions.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if you're launching such a bold venture surely to drive one, hopefully easily/realistically achievable, project to completion to get street cred has to be the first thing that you do and from there launch further more ambitious projects?
The whole thing to me seems to be a Facebook driven feeding frenzy for dreamers with totally improbable chances of becoming reality.
Sorry just my experienced views and I'll be happy to be proven the naysayer.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Feb 15, 2019 8:44:14 GMT 12
I agree with Deny by now I would have also expected a detailed proposal on at least one of the aircraft identified and an indication of where funding would come from, timeframe for recovery and delivery and where the aircraft was to be housed in NZ and who would become the custodian for storage and restoration
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Post by l29 on Feb 15, 2019 9:01:03 GMT 12
I agree with Deny by now I would have also expected a detailed proposal on at least one of the aircraft identified and an indication of where funding would come from, timeframe for recovery and delivery and where the aircraft was to be housed in NZ and who would become the custodian for storage and restoration If you had done a ounce of research you will have answered 90% of your question. Dreamer or not, at least he is out there trying which is a hell of a lot more than most can say. It may take time but I bet he will get a couple of airframes back to NZ. Good luck to a fellow dreamer.
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Post by agalbraith on Feb 15, 2019 11:00:16 GMT 12
Well I have to agree with Denys etc, I think he is well meaning but unrealistic. Dont get me wrong l29, nothing wrong with dreamers trying to turn things into a reality. I know I did it myself. However I have poured more of my OWN money into my aircraft rebuild than I care to think about... People thought Glyn Powell was a dreamer too, but he put everything of his to make a flying Mosquito a reality.
I think the difference comes when you are trying to extract $$ out of the well meaning public who themselves dont appreciate the scale of what he is doing. And to some of us, it looks like well meaning people are funding his dream financially with no real substance to what he is doing.
Maybe he will do this and surprise a lot of us, but I doubt we will see anything but enthusiasts paying for a world junket at this stage....
Prove me wrong and I will apologize as it would be great to see these birds back here.....until then
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 15, 2019 12:22:50 GMT 12
Even if BOBH ends up getting five or six large aircraft back to New Zealand and even manages to transport them to Wanaka where they are supposedly going to be displayed, that's still only the first part of the story.
Restoring just one large aircraft even with big funding in place and professionals and volunteers on the team is a huge task - ask MOTAT about the Sunderland and Solent, or the James DC3 team. But trying to restore and maintain five or six of them, some of which are derelict wrecks, with no major funding or sponsorship and just trickling donations, plus doing it at a remote airport that is apparently evicting good long term tenants because it intends to remove buildings to expand their operational airline activities, does seem like a huge ask to me.
I still wish them well but I tend to agree there are lots of grey areas here and it would be nice to see much clearer plans laid out of how they intend to fund all this.
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Post by isc on Feb 15, 2019 13:27:48 GMT 12
What about the B-727 at Woodbourne, it only needs to be got from there to Wigram. isc
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Post by pjw4118 on Feb 15, 2019 13:46:52 GMT 12
Something that would get me excited is recovering the Corsair from Bouganville, its there and still " NZ property" ( as defined by the USN for their wrecks ). A good excercise for our DF and hand out some aid at the same time,,,,calling Winston !!
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Post by baronbeeza on Feb 15, 2019 13:50:34 GMT 12
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Post by TS on Feb 15, 2019 15:31:59 GMT 12
Awww Cher Bro!!! Gives it a water Blast and polish, Don't worry about the leading edge aye jist fly below 10,000 ft and sweet yer on ya way ....
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Post by agalbraith on Feb 15, 2019 15:57:33 GMT 12
Something that would get me excited is recovering the Corsair from Bouganville, its there and still " NZ property" ( as defined by the USN for their wrecks ). A good excercise for our DF and hand out some aid at the same time,,,,calling Winston !! Could make a great recovery project for the NZDF like they did with the Dauntless...
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Post by baronbeeza on Feb 15, 2019 17:19:11 GMT 12
One of the problems here is that we are only working from some newspaper article. They didn't even manage to spell the airline correctly so you can only imagine what else may not be accurate. There was mention however of flying one or more of these machines as a possibility. Now presumably we are thinking Ferry flight as opposed to the Export C of A, Import C of A rigmarole.
One problem with international ferry flights is that they need a lot of research, in some instances you must have special permission from each foreign country it wishes to fly over.
That is not always the case but it may be airspace as opposed to refuel stops. That can soon add up to be a lot of countries seeking a dollar, especially across the Southern part of Asia.
You see so many times people complain about the unexpected hurdles thrown up at them once they get things underway. While some can be unexpected there are generally a good deal that were always there, but just not considered.
That said I once did an appraisal of a damaged Chieftain up in Mogadishu. I recommended removing props, engines, radios etc as the machine was a write off. Anyway they knew better, for $300 they bought a pilot to fly the thing back to Nairobi. He wouldn't have even mentioned to anyone that the aircraft had been crashed and the gear taken out, fuselage broken etc. They fitted new props, locked the gear down and did a refuel. Easy...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 15, 2019 17:43:12 GMT 12
Something that would get me excited is recovering the Corsair from Bouganville, its there and still " NZ property" ( as defined by the USN for their wrecks ). A good excercise for our DF and hand out some aid at the same time,,,,calling Winston !! Could make a great recovery project for the NZDF like they did with the Dauntless... Didn't you already try that Anthony?
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Post by thomarse on Feb 15, 2019 18:15:55 GMT 12
Am I the only one who sees this and thinks of Bohemian Rhapsody? In more than one way?
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Post by skyhawkdon on Feb 16, 2019 7:20:41 GMT 12
What about the B-727 at Woodbourne, it only needs to be got from there to Wigram. isc It is about to be chopped up. The cockpit and front section of the fuselage is coming to Wigram.
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Post by agalbraith on Feb 16, 2019 7:39:41 GMT 12
Could make a great recovery project for the NZDF like they did with the Dauntless... Didn't you already try that Anthony? Yes mate, with the PV-1. A lot of work was done at the time with the Minister of Defense etc etc. It was election year and Labour were keen for some positive PR after the Skyhawk withdrawl etc. Phil Goff's team were keen but the (at that time) RNZAF Museum declined the offer to have the Airframe (which was also formally offered to the NZ Govt by the landowner and PNG Govt) as they already had a Hudson. Frustrating as hell......and it breaks my heart everytime I see a pic of her rotting away. Now maybe a Corsair might work??? Arent/werent they looking for a Corsair at one stage?? Unless they do something soon we wont even be able to have this discussion as either the scrappers will have her, or she will be powder on the jungle floor...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 16, 2019 8:29:02 GMT 12
I did not realise the landowner was keen to see the Ventura come home. Bloody annoying, should have trued getting it to Classic Flyers!
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Post by isc on Feb 16, 2019 21:19:50 GMT 12
Don, I suppose that a cockpit section is better than nothing, but the whole machine would be nice, the museum might have just about needed to build a separate shelter for the complete B-727, and that alone would have been against having it apart from getting it south from Woodbourne. isc
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