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Post by typerated on Mar 9, 2019 21:39:57 GMT 12
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Post by delticman on Mar 9, 2019 21:57:43 GMT 12
Probably the pilots and crew are not trained for bucket/ sling work. Most of the firefighting pilots are agricultural using spreader buckets every day or others doing sling work in the bush or even logging. Any bucket work is like flying two helicopters at the same time. These operations are not to be confused with lifting work which the military are trained for.
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Post by typerated on Mar 9, 2019 22:05:23 GMT 12
Fair call,
But I'd suggest it was in the national interest to fund training this skill!
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Post by ErrolC on Mar 9, 2019 22:22:56 GMT 12
It seems unlikely adding it to the NZDF aircrew training is the most efficient way to go about it.
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Post by typerated on Mar 9, 2019 22:27:02 GMT 12
It seems unlikely adding it to the NZDF aircrew training is the most efficient way to go about it. Why? I'd suggest we are quite short of heavy hitting fire bombers. They only have to be current for a few months and not the whole force!
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Post by delticman on Mar 10, 2019 8:39:38 GMT 12
It seems unlikely adding it to the NZDF aircrew training is the most efficient way to go about it. To add to that, some helicopters have time percentage added to their hours after each heavy lift. With an NH90 that could be big $'s
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Post by machina on Mar 10, 2019 9:53:56 GMT 12
Let's just get some CH-47s then
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Post by kiwirico on Mar 10, 2019 10:12:05 GMT 12
I think fire fighting should be a part of the Air Force. We, in the Netherlands, have been doing this since we operate a fleet of both Eurocopter Cougars and CH-47D Chinooks (mid 1990's till now). Almost every air arm in Europe use Air Force or Army helicopters for this; from BELL 212 to EH.101 or the larger Chinooks. They train to do this frequently. However, no idea if NH.90 could do this job.
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Post by delticman on Mar 10, 2019 10:34:03 GMT 12
I think fire fighting should be a part of the Air Force. We, in the Netherlands, have been doing this since we operate a fleet of both Eurocopter Cougars and CH-47D Chinooks (mid 1990's till now). Almost every air arm in Europe use Air Force or Army helicopters for this; from BELL 212 to EH.101 or the larger Chinooks. They train to do this frequently. However, no idea if NH.90 could do this job. Too expensive.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Mar 10, 2019 10:55:22 GMT 12
I agree with previous comments. As the NH90 were acquired for military purposes they have limited annual flying hours to ensure they survive to life of type. In NZ there are more than enough civilian helicopters to perform the firefighting role.
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Post by ErrolC on Mar 10, 2019 11:03:19 GMT 12
I think fire fighting should be a part of the Air Force. We, in the Netherlands, have been doing this since we operate a fleet of both Eurocopter Cougars and CH-47D Chinooks (mid 1990's till now). Almost every air arm in Europe use Air Force or Army helicopters for this; from BELL 212 to EH.101 or the larger Chinooks. They train to do this frequently. However, no idea if NH.90 could do this job. NZ's need is quite small (this might change in the coming decades), and we have a proportionally large pool of suitably equipped helicopters and 95%-trained (for their normal jobs) crew. Civil Defence (or whoever funds this) haven't seen a need to arrange (or request through channels) specialist aviation assets to supplement this 'organic' capacity. My gut feeling is that more supplementary funding to the helicopter industry to have more capacity will be more efficient than increasing the RNZAF training load, reducing crew flexibility (e.g. if only some crews are trained, then you can't send them overseas during fire season), and increasing tasking for a small fleet of large expensive NH-90s.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 10, 2019 11:44:37 GMT 12
In the interview that was published on Stuff yesterday with helicopter firefighter Alan Beck he stated that he thinks that in future the forestry companies will have to start hiring helicopters capable of firefighting on a permanent basis to be ready for the inevitable. Considering a lot of the forests in New Zealand are privately owned and in many cases foreign owned by massive corporations this seems the best option rather than the archaic idea of lumping another huge responsibility on the already busy No. 3 Squadron.
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Post by typerated on Mar 10, 2019 11:51:17 GMT 12
I disagree..
We (tax payer) pay whoever flys. And in the case of a national emergency a few more flying hours or a brought forward OSD is 2/5 of bugger all consideration.
No civilian helicopters have the heavy lift here - You can go down the road of renting specialist firefighting machines like across the ditch though.
Either way - I am picking sooner rather than later we will need more than have now!
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Post by typerated on Mar 10, 2019 12:01:20 GMT 12
I think more of a question for the government is which is better to fund - more hours for 3 Sqn or renting civilian that may not be used from one year to the next.
Certainly many air arm have fire fighting as a task
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Post by mcmaster on Mar 10, 2019 13:04:21 GMT 12
Here in Aus the ADF is upfront that aerial bushfire fighting is the responsibility of the States and is a highly specialised field requiring dedicated equipment and training that, the ADF does not have or do. In other words it’s more efficient to leave to specialists and rent the service when it’s needed.
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Post by ErrolC on Mar 10, 2019 13:27:01 GMT 12
Does the ADF provide logistical support etc in especially bad cases, like they do for e.g. floods?
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Post by madmac on Mar 10, 2019 15:10:52 GMT 12
If we had more NH90's, a TAF Squadron would be an ideal location for such a skill set, but that arn't going to happen.
A plan for mobilization of the county fixed wing ag fleet is probably the most cost effective.
Can anyone tell me why they seem to insist on filling aircraft with dam hoses. Its so labour intensive and relatively slow. Its not hard to have palletize bucket and a trained operater on stand by and just use the nearest telly handler.
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Post by richard1098 on Mar 10, 2019 16:58:33 GMT 12
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Post by typerated on Mar 10, 2019 17:21:26 GMT 12
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Post by tfly on Mar 10, 2019 19:53:49 GMT 12
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