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Post by nighthawknz on Nov 14, 2019 20:06:11 GMT 12
Is there a figure for vehicle lane metres? Not sure about the lane metres gibbo . I can't recall seeing any when I've looked at material, because what's been openly published has been somewhat sparse. The only thing I can find, is "The well deck can accommodate four landing craft plus up to 17 tanks on the vehicle deck. Another deck can fit 16 30t armoured vehicles. The design features 4,200 square meters of helicopter deck and 5 helicopter spots on the flat deck. The hangar deck measuring 2,050 square meters can accommodate up to 10 medium-size helicopters." So 16 NZLAV's would fit on the light vehicle deck, although in reality we would put the NZLAV's would be on the heavy vehicle deck and I would suggest that since they are smaller than the average Tank, more than 17 would fit. However, there isn't an actual figure given for vehicle lane metres as such. I have a feeling that ST Marine will say the design is scalable and adaptable etc... (which in today's world it would have to be.) |
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Post by senob on Nov 14, 2019 20:51:37 GMT 12
Is there a figure for vehicle lane metres? Not sure about the lane metres gibbo . I can't recall seeing any when I've looked at material, because what's been openly published has been somewhat sparse. The only thing I can find, is "The well deck can accommodate four landing craft plus up to 17 tanks on the vehicle deck. Another deck can fit 16 30t armoured vehicles. The design features 4,200 square meters of helicopter deck and 5 helicopter spots on the flat deck. The hangar deck measuring 2,050 square meters can accommodate up to 10 medium-size helicopters." So 16 NZLAV's would fit on the light vehicle deck, although in reality we would put the NZLAV's would be on the heavy vehicle deck and I would suggest that since they are smaller than the average Tank, more than 17 would fit. However, there isn't an actual figure given for vehicle lane metres as such. I have a feeling that ST Marine will say the design is scalable and adaptable etc... (which in today's world it would have to be.) Yep, that's what I like about it and at its current size of 170 m it's the right size for us. We definitely wouldn't want it any bigger. We wouldn't always use all that space but its good to have because it would future proof us. Steel is cheap and air is free. The flight deck should be able to lilly pad up to a couple of Chinooks and have 1 or 2 spots with heat treatment for lilly padding USMC MV-22 Ospreys. |
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Post by nighthawknz on Nov 14, 2019 20:59:40 GMT 12
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Post by macnz on Nov 14, 2019 21:06:44 GMT 12
Isn’t the 170 a helicopter carrier? NZ doesn’t have any navalised helicopters other than a few seasprites? DCP 2019: Maritime Helicopter Replacement 199. The eight existing Seasprite SH-2G(I), the last of their type, will reach the end of their service lives in the late 2020s. A new fleet of maritime helicopters will be acquired in order to support the naval patrol, sealift and combat capabilities. 200. Maritime helicopters offer surveillance, air transport and combat capabilities. Initial thinking on the replacement helicopters will need to determine the primary role of the aircraft, to ensure they are appropriately suited to complement planned replacements for the patrol, sealift and combat capabilities. Indicative dates: Industry engagement commences – 2020 Request for tender – 2024 Introduction into Service – 2028 Indicative capital cost: More than $1b ...won't be surprised if we opt to go with the NFH-90 to keep commonality & costs with the Air Forces' TTH-90s. Although I wouldn't object to some MV-22 Osprey to accompany any future LHD purchase. |
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Post by macnz on Nov 14, 2019 21:29:10 GMT 12
Nighthawknz thxs for infographic. - only missing China's Type 071 LPD (similar to San Antonio-class) @ 25,000 tonnes which China is building 7 & 1 for Thailand, and China's new LHD - Type 075 @40,000 tonnes which China is planning 3. I agree the Endurance 170 would be probably be the most ambitious our Navy should go, but then we will need to have at least a 1 frigate escort to accompany such an asset. So hopefully in the Future Surface combatant programme someone will see sense to return to a 4 frigate/ 2 Frigate & 2 Corvette fleet replacement.
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Post by nighthawknz on Nov 14, 2019 23:12:34 GMT 12
Nighthawknz thxs for infographic. - only missing China's Type 071 LPD (similar to San Antonio-class) @ 25,000 tonnes which China is building 7 & 1 for Thailand, and China's new LHD - Type 075 @40,000 tonnes which China is planning 3. I agree the Endurance 170 would be probably be the most ambitious our Navy should go, but then we will need to have at least a 1 frigate escort to accompany such an asset. So hopefully in the Future Surface combatant programme someone will see sense to return to a 4 frigate/ 2 Frigate & 2 Corvette fleet replacement. I couldn't any decent drawings of them... Maybe I should have put the Kiwi on the funnel of the E-170 lol ;-) And yes back to a four frigate navy... minimum. |
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Post by beegeetee on Nov 15, 2019 8:24:07 GMT 12
To play Devil's advocate, has it actually been confirmed we are getting 5 new aircraft? All the quotes/references I have seen refer to " up to 5 aircraft". A slowing economy and politicians being politicians... ... the well dock consumes a fair chunk of space. It does, but it's worth mentioning that the landing craft that occupy that space can be pre-loaded with vehicles and equipment, so there is some utilization of that space. |
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Post by beegeetee on Nov 15, 2019 9:04:29 GMT 12
Just to give a sense of scale, you can see a couple of LPD's that are larger than some of the smaller LHD's, and the San Antonio Class LPD is a monster. Awesome infographic. There is also the Mistral 140: Length: 170m Beam: 30m Displacement: 14,000 tons Range: 6,000 nmi (6,900 mi; 11,000 km) at 15 knots Accommodation: 500 troops and over 30 vehicles It has hangar space for ten helicopters, a 400m2 joint operations command centre and a 30 bed hospital.   |
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Post by nighthawknz on Nov 15, 2019 11:25:16 GMT 12
Just to give a sense of scale, you can see a couple of LPD's that are larger than some of the smaller LHD's, and the San Antonio Class LPD is a monster. Awesome infographic. There is also the Mistral 140: Length: 170m Beam: 30m Displacement: 14,000 tons Range: 6,000 nmi (6,900 mi; 11,000 km) at 15 knots Accommodation: 500 troops and over 30 vehicles It has hangar space for ten helicopters, a 400m2 joint operations command centre and a 30 bed hospital. Being French I believe they will too expensive even if built in South Korea hard to say ... |
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Post by senob on Nov 15, 2019 18:52:55 GMT 12
nighthawknz check your PMs. Regarding the Mistrals, I have heard that they aren't the best designed ship on the oggy and it is now a somewhat dated design. Be happy to be proved wrong. I have an image of the E170 in RNZN colours. Once I figure out how to post said image here I'll post it. I am having to resort to reading the instructions.
EDIT: Read said instructions.
In this image it has a Rheinmettall 35 mm Millennium gun mounted on the foc'sle and one aft above the FCO & hangar.
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Post by nighthawknz on Nov 15, 2019 20:37:30 GMT 12
That's cool...
Technically that is the 160... The 170 has the lift and crane behind the Island and forward is a spot for either a gun or missile silo ie; CAMM or something else.(depending what is under it and layout etc... I suspect it would be what ever you want.)
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Post by senob on Nov 15, 2019 22:13:06 GMT 12
Here's the escort that you were after.
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Post by beegeetee on Nov 16, 2019 8:12:07 GMT 12
nighthawknz check your PMs. Regarding the Mistrals, I have heard that they aren't the best designed ship on the oggy and it is now a somewhat dated design. Be happy to be proved wrong. I have an image of the E170 in RNZN colours. Once I figure out how to post said image here I'll post it. I am having to resort to reading the instructions.
EDIT: Read said instructions.
In this image it has a Rheinmettall 35 mm Millennium gun mounted on the foc'sle and one aft above the FCO & hangar.
Nagtimozart posted that exact same image in the defence talk forum ages ago. Did you create it or did he? Unless you're the same poster somebody is plagiarizing somebody. Nagti's post |
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Post by beegeetee on Nov 16, 2019 8:26:29 GMT 12
Here's the escort that you were after.
Mate, this is off topic fanboy BS. Let's not turn this into a fan art thread. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 16, 2019 10:43:15 GMT 12
OK, I have already been getting several complaints from members here who visit this forum for aviation content that they are dismayed that it has "turned into a Navy forum". I tend to agree, when you look at recent posts it's almost all Navy content lately and I am sure that puts the aviation people off.
These speculative threads where people post what they personally think the NZDF should purchase serve absolutely zero purpose whatsoever - and these ship ones are worse than the Hercules and Orion replacement threads that went on ad nauseum for years because there's only three or four people in the world who follow and care about them, and yet they are prolifically filling the forum up. So I am putting a stop to all these threads here and now, and they won't be reopened unless ACTUAL REAL NEWS comes out about defence ship purchases. If any member starts a new speculative thread on what they think the Navy needs to buy, they will find it shut down and their account suspended.
Also, the former member known as Ngatimozart was banned from this forum for continually breaching forum rules and making strange and unfounded allegations about people. That person, Paul Holland, is most definitely not welcome here. Now I see there's an accusation posted that 'Senob' may be the same person. I do not know if it is, but I'll give 'Senob' 24 hours to contact me with actual proof he is NOT Paul Holland, aka Ngatimozart, and if this is not met, Senob you can consider your account banned.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 16, 2019 19:45:33 GMT 12
Thank you beegeetee for the heads up on Senob, turns out he was indeed that same person that uses Ngatimozart as a name, aka Paul Holland, aka John Wellington....
Senob is now as banned as Ngatimozart was. If you spot the guy showing up again, let me know. It really pisses me off.
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