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Post by agalbraith on Aug 5, 2020 22:04:10 GMT 12
This is the best possible outcome Here's hoping she returns to her Kiwi scheme (as she wore with No.2 Sqn TAF, I'm sure that will be Brendan's intent. I've always liked this scheme but then again I'm a 'Canes supporter '23' definitely carried the cheques at some stage, I have some good photo's of her and you can clearly see where they had been removed I will try and post soon Cheers Anthony
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Post by agalbraith on Aug 5, 2020 22:07:59 GMT 12
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Post by agalbraith on Aug 5, 2020 22:09:55 GMT 12
Up close, note forward of the roundel the remains of where the chequers once were
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Post by agalbraith on Aug 5, 2020 22:11:50 GMT 12
Another nice photo Enjoy...
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Post by agalbraith on Aug 5, 2020 22:17:54 GMT 12
Oh I am not going mad after all...they were -25's
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Post by curtiss on Aug 5, 2020 22:42:52 GMT 12
Up close, note forward of the roundel the remains of where the chequers once were Are you sure that is the checkers and not the US bar? Strange that no photos have surfaced yet of it with Checkers.
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Post by TS on Aug 5, 2020 22:45:14 GMT 12
You know what I think, NO BODY should be speculating what the finished article should be painted in. Just be darn happy it is staying in NZ. If she ends up with stars and bars so what. It's here to stay. But I somehow think that when Brendon has finished restoring 23 we will all be happy no matter what. Just sayin...
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Post by agalbraith on Aug 5, 2020 22:51:53 GMT 12
You know what I think, NO BODY should be speculating what the finished article should be painted in. Just be darn happy it is staying in NZ. If she ends up with stars and bars so what. It's here to stay. But I somehow think that when Brendon has finished restoring 23 we will all be happy no matter what. Just sayin... No body is speculating at all what scheme she should be in...who cares, she is staying in NZ. But for some of us it is interesting to study the chequered (scuse the pun) history, squadron usage and schemes certain airframes wore in service
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Post by agalbraith on Aug 5, 2020 23:05:29 GMT 12
Up close, note forward of the roundel the remains of where the chequers once were Are you sure that is the checkers and not the US bar? Strange that no photos have surfaced yet of it with Checkers. Yes I agree Mike, strange we have seen no images of her with the cheques either. I have seen a much better photo of '23' somewhere with the area more prominent where they had been removed(Maybe RNZAF Museum?), but you can see in the images here the proportions of the removed bars are much larger than the US applied ones originally on her. Just interesting...
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Post by planecrazy on Aug 5, 2020 23:47:25 GMT 12
Another nice photo Enjoy... Wow this set of three b/w photos are great nice and sharp and great detail, on the subject of detail the significance of the 513? No relation to the NZ number? Thank you for posting these and enjoying the history of RNZAF Mustangs being discussed really interesting and educational.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 6, 2020 0:44:00 GMT 12
If the paint scheme is symmetrical then the position of the serial as also changed. In the early photo it's butted up to the US bar, in the later shots it has been moved backward to make room for the larger chequerboard bars. It's odd that they changed the bars (probably twice), moved the serial and added the finflash, but made no attempt to over-paint or remove the partial makers number on the rudder.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Aug 6, 2020 9:13:40 GMT 12
The AAF serial was 45-11513 See photo third from bottom which has 511513 painted on the fin. It was sold to ANAS CO for 70.00 pounds in 1957, one of 17 Mustangs bought by the company
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Post by baz62 on Aug 6, 2020 9:19:29 GMT 12
but made no attempt to over-paint or remove the partial makers number on the rudder. Is the rudder fabric covered? Possibly didnt have suitable silver to apply or maybe balance issues although I wouldnt have thought a coat of paint would worry the balance. Or they just painted what they were told to. Great photos Ants thanks for sharing for us photo hungry forumites.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 6, 2020 9:24:37 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 6, 2020 9:28:32 GMT 12
Is the rudder fabric covered? Possibly didnt have suitable silver to apply or maybe balance issues although I wouldnt have thought a coat of paint would worry the balance. The 1950's RNZAF would have had plenty of silver dope Baz, their Tiger Moths were all repainted in it, and they'd use it on other types such as the Harvards, Dakotas, Dominies, Oxfords, Aerovans and Devons, I'm sure. Plus the other Mustangs did not have part of their USAAF serial still on the tail for most of their service so this one seems an oddity.
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Post by davidd on Aug 6, 2020 10:34:07 GMT 12
There were three types of "silver" dope used by the RNZAF in the 1950s, including the "traditional" one (which was rather heavy, but durable) for slower aircraft (and traditional fabric covered aircraft), and the "high-Speed" finish for the Mustangs and Vampires, although the "High-Speed" dope only became available in about mid-1950s. Vampires may have had the high speed finish applied by the factory in UK. Something else the Vampires and Mustangs had in common is that both had their laminar-flow wing surfaces "profiled" by having all irregularities filled in with a type of filler, and then templates were employed to check the surfaces for absolute aerodynamic perfection. Then a good scheme of doping was applied over this to provide a finish that was in theory as good as could be obtained with the traditional forms of construction (built up assemblies made from sheet metal - spars, ribs, stringers, etc.) However, with the passage of time, and vigorous flying, all this careful work would be undone, with the filler material shrinking and cracking, and should have been completely re-done, but I have my doubts that this was always done by the RNZAF. A document dating from around the mid-1950s states that they had located the special profile forms for the Vampires at Ohakea, but they had not been in use. In fact some were advocating that the wings should be stripped of all paint, etc., and flown in bare metal, although this was never attempted so far as I know. A third type of "silver" finish was also introduced, called "Light-weight" finish which was intended to reduce weight as much as possible, but was probably intended for all-metal aircraft (am pretty certain all but the first two Devons were delivered with this finish). I will have to get back to my boxed files and give a little more clarity on these different products, and their "DTD" numbers some time, although I think Paul may beat me to it! David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 6, 2020 10:54:42 GMT 12
Well the photo of NZ2423 even after it had left service and was awaiting disposal shows that half AAF serial still on the rudder so even up till 1958 no-one squirted any high speed or 'light-weight' dope over the numbers which seems odd, and a bit slapdash.
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Post by Mustang51 on Aug 6, 2020 10:56:34 GMT 12
None of the recent pics have opened for me......so sad.....especially as this is a particular area of interest.......
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Post by ZacYates on Aug 6, 2020 11:29:24 GMT 12
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Aug 6, 2020 11:51:48 GMT 12
You know what I think, NO BODY should be speculating what the finished article should be painted in. Just be darn happy it is staying in NZ. If she ends up with stars and bars so what. It's here to stay. But I somehow think that when Brendon has finished restoring 23 we will all be happy no matter what. Just sayin... Unclench bro, this is an aviation forum & we can discuss our thoughts or opinions freely as long as it's within the rules. Like you I'm confident Brendon and his crew will do a fantastic job no matter what the final scheme looks like
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