chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 128
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Post by chrism on Apr 27, 2020 21:41:31 GMT 12
Hi all, I have a section of a wing flap off a Lockheed aircraft. I believe it is off a PV1 Ventura but not sure, hope someone can help. The proof stamping shown says V18, maybe model 18 as in Lodestar? As the Ventura was based on the model 18 would the stampings be the same or not? All parts of the flap are marked "2352 337". A part number I presume? Any help would be appreciated, Cheers flic.kr/p/2iUSYH4flic.kr/p/2iURkhU
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Post by davidd on Apr 28, 2020 11:09:24 GMT 12
The "V18" is certainly not a part number (much too short), you call it a "proof" number (Does not that term refer to checking armament and explosive stores?), but I would say it is the inspector's stamp, and as Vega was the manufacturer, the "V" prefix would probably indicate that. However, although the Lodestar "type number" was 18, the (US Navy) PV-1 equivalent was 237 (original Ventura Mk. I for RAF was the type 37). Cannot imagine what the 337 was (the PV-2 had a completely different number, which I cannot recall, but fairly certain it was NOT 337.) David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 28, 2020 11:31:41 GMT 12
The constructor's number for Ventura NZ4630 was 6337, if that helps? That one was broken up at Ohakea.
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chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 128
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Post by chrism on Apr 28, 2020 13:20:30 GMT 12
The "V18" is certainly not a part number (much too short), you call it a "proof" number (Does not that term refer to checking armament and explosive stores?), but I would say it is the inspector's stamp, and as Vega was the manufacturer, the "V" prefix would probably indicate that. However, although the Lodestar "type number" was 18, the (US Navy) PV-1 equivalent was 237 (original Ventura Mk. I for RAF was the type 37). Cannot imagine what the 337 was (the PV-2 had a completely different number, which I cannot recall, but fairly certain it was NOT 337.) David D Cheers, didn't mean proof as armament or anything, wrong word I guess. Was going off the following chart flic.kr/p/2iV84gP
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Post by curtiss on Apr 28, 2020 22:27:42 GMT 12
The circular stamp with V18 is the HT - heat treatment stamp ( as per your list ). This is stamped on after the item is heat treated. V could be for "Vega" - ie it would be a Ventura part.
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Post by madmac on Apr 29, 2020 11:06:37 GMT 12
Hudson flaps are not flush riveted on top, while Ventura flaps are.
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Post by madmac on Apr 29, 2020 11:08:54 GMT 12
Also if you have the bracket that goes between the flap sections, the Hudson ones are cast and the Ventura ones are formed steel.
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chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 128
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Post by chrism on Apr 30, 2020 21:08:32 GMT 12
Also if you have the bracket that goes between the flap sections, the Hudson ones are cast and the Ventura ones are formed steel. Thanks mate, they are formed steel so sure it is Ventura. Unless it's 18/Lodestar/C60? Although I'm sure I can make out some white underside and blue upper surface paint traces which would still suggest PV1. Cheers
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Post by davidd on May 1, 2020 16:58:46 GMT 12
Part way through the production run of the 1,600 US Navy PV-1s, the flaps were subtlety redesigned, and the maintenance manual illustrations of the two types show them as being very, very similar. I have always presumed that the purpose of the redesign was to strengthen the flaps, as the original (1941/42 RAF-type) Venturas had a max take off weight of about 26,500 pounds, whereas the later PV-1s were up to 31,500 pounds, so one would presume a somewhat higher landing speed, which might well cause the flaps to be aerodynamically overstressed when deployed. However the manual does not state why the flaps were redesigned, just that they were. Don't think this information is of much help to you, but so far as I know, the RNZAF Venturas were probably all fitted at factory with the later-style flaps. David D
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Post by madmac on May 1, 2020 18:55:22 GMT 12
The internals look identical to the Hudson flaps (layout wise, maybe they went up a gauge). I was interested to note that the stringers on the flap are riveted, as the Hudson flaps seem to have two versions (no idea if it resulted in different part numbers) one where the stringers were spot welded and the other riveted.
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Post by emron on May 2, 2020 16:00:55 GMT 12
Sorry I don’t have access to any manuals until after lock-down but here’s a cross reference for other parts that I compiled a while back when doing a stocktake at MOTAT. Your flap section should have the part number stamped into it somewhere as most parts are clearly marked. It’s likely to be something in the series 18xxx to 19xxx. LOCKHEED WING & EMPENNAGE PARTS LIST ---------------------- Hudson Lodestar Ventura Wing Left.............70271-L.. 73681L.... 19009-L Wing Right...........70271-R.. 73681R.... 19009-R Aileron Left..........70273-L.. 52002L..... 18818-L Aileron Right........70273-R.. 52002R.... 18818-R Wing Tip Left........70274-L.. 52003L.... 18817-L Wing Tip Right......70274-R.. 52003R.... 18817-R Fin Upper Left.......70285-2L. 53004-500 19108-2L Fin Upper Right.....70285-2R. 53004-501 19108-2R Fin Lower..............70285-3.. 53004-4... 19108-3 Rudder Upper.........70286-3.. 53006-3... 19035-3 Rudder Lower.........70286-2.. 53006-2... 19035-2 Elevator Left..........70283-L.. 73375L.... 19018-L Elevator Right........70283-R.. 73375R.... 19018-R Stabilizer Tip Left...70277-L.. 53005L.... 19016-L Stabilizer Tip Right.70277-R.. 53005R.... 19016-R
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Post by denysjones on May 2, 2020 16:55:11 GMT 12
The Parts Book I've got calls out the flaps as being made up four separate assembly units as follows from fuselage outwards
112107-L (or -R) 112106-2 112106-3 112106-4
and the whole assembly is 18819-L (or -R)
hth
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chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 128
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Post by chrism on May 3, 2020 14:59:38 GMT 12
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chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 128
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Post by chrism on May 3, 2020 15:21:33 GMT 12
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chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 128
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Post by chrism on May 3, 2020 15:35:56 GMT 12
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Post by denysjones on May 3, 2020 16:50:52 GMT 12
Hi Chris, Here's the full story for you from the PV-1 manual it should cover all the bits you've got
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Post by madmac on May 3, 2020 17:11:44 GMT 12
The Cast brackets are Hudson I believe. The Ventura ones are a one piece of steel in place of the two arms and cast bracket. Those two rivnuts in the skin are for attaching the end of the nacelle fairing
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chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 128
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Post by chrism on May 3, 2020 18:20:41 GMT 12
The Cast brackets are Hudson I believe. The Ventura ones are a one piece of steel in place of the two arms and cast bracket. Those two rivnuts in the skin are for attaching the end of the nacelle fairing Some of the fairing was still there when I got it. It had been folded and torn apart so I have been disassembling the sections to make something of it. The picture below shows how I got it after some straightening and sitting together. Could some Ventura's possibly have had the cast brackets? Other details seem to point it more towards PV1 but unsure. Generated from my Samsung SM-A105G using tools.sportscard.trade
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chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 128
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Post by chrism on May 3, 2020 18:28:36 GMT 12
Hi Chris, Here's the full story for you from the PV-1 manual it should cover all the bits you've got Thanks Denys, thats great. It seems that only the spar and one outer rib number line up correctly, the upper skin would other than the -7, as in 112106-7. However the LH side may have different numbers? I need to keep looking at more parts I guess unless it's not PV1 and just has some common part numbers? Have found many smaller metal stamped numbers on most parts consisting of a simple "R" and two digits in brackets ie (R30), (R34) or (R10) etc.
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chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 128
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Post by chrism on May 3, 2020 22:30:07 GMT 12
I think I've changed my mind now, thinking it must be Hudson. The shape of the remaining portion of engine nacelle fairing looks more like Hudson than PV1? But the seemingly dark sea blue paint is confusing? Cheers
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