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Post by emron on May 4, 2020 8:39:51 GMT 12
Chris, thanks for posting the latest photos. You’ve definitely got a PV-1 left hand flap there (or at least most of one) I’ve never seen one close up before but am well familiar with the Lodestar flaps. Over the years I’ve helped to build up and repair the 3 sets on MOTAT’s Lockheeds. They’ve had to make do with Lodestar wings on both the Hudson and the Ventura. The remains of the tail cone fairing that you have is for the R2800 nacelle size. There are 44 screws around the perimeter which matches the parts list quantity. The tail cone fairing on both the Hudson and Lodestar flaps is a narrower profile to match the R1820 nacelle diameter. On these two as well they have a stainless steel flame shield attached outside of the fairing. The Ventura didn’t require that as it’s exhausts don’t extend that far back. Another clue is the size of the roller bearings attached to the casting. I can see that the two vertical bearings that keep the flap central on the track are the wider ones that the Ventura has. I’ll leave it up to the paint experts to debate what colour scheme it comes with. It would be handy to get some more close-up photos of what remains of the tailcone fairing. MOTAT may want to make replicas someday for NZ4600 and the detail from yours would be useful to get the position and shape just right.
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Post by denysjones on May 4, 2020 9:23:17 GMT 12
Chris, I agree with Ron just looking at the size of the flap but I'm a bit confused by the end fitting with the obviously riveted insert. Here's the illustration from my manual The part labelled 2 has P/N of 114489-L (or R as appropriate) and all the other reinforcements begin with the same 1144 digits. Here's the corresponding Hudson illustration On it parts 17, 21, 22, 23, 26 are 51750, 75561, 75564, 51798 and 51811 respectively and the Hudson has no - suffix for Left and has -1 for Right It looks like the root of the PV-1 flap has an additional part riveted into 114489 but I've not been able to locate it in the manual I can't make out the last digit on it in your photo if you supply it I can check, but the initial characters 1025 say it isn't the same part as the Hudson. regards
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Post by madmac on May 4, 2020 13:59:19 GMT 12
Having dug my Hudson flap photos out, I see there are a couple more differences
The inboard flap panel on the Hudson trailing edge is tapers forward from the 2nd inboard rib (the aerofoil section / length is unchanged, a tapered channel section is riveted in to tie the skins together.
There is two types of trailing edge riveting, on the Hudson the trailing edge rivet tails are normal while the other style (assuming Ventura) the rivets are double flush.
The Hudson flaps have 3 stringers aft of the flap while yours have 4 stringers.
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Post by madmac on May 4, 2020 17:44:17 GMT 12
Anyone got a parts manual for a Lodestar, given the production dates, maybe the cast fitting was used on the Lodestar as built and later changed to the more durable steel fittings (either on the line or as a post war whole flap swap).
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Post by madmac on May 4, 2020 19:26:51 GMT 12
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chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 128
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Post by chrism on May 4, 2020 20:48:45 GMT 12
Cheers everyone. I got a bit thrown regarding the shape of the engine fairing by several photos like the one below... Generated from my Samsung SM-A105G using tools.sportscard.tradeTo me it seemed to show the fairing stopping well short of the flap trailing edge where as on my flap the remains of the fairing reach and slightly protrude beyond the trailing edge as the pic below shows. Upon closer inspection and from Madmac's shared pics I can now see that the flap and therefore fairing lay well inside of the wing upper surface which threw me off. Generated from my Samsung SM-A105G using tools.sportscard.tradeDenys, the part number on the alloy cast part is 10259-L. One of the 2 steel plates that rivet to either side of this casting to complete the bracket has a part number of 10401-L on it. Emron, more than happy to help. Do you volunteer at Motat? They can have the relative parts or remains of if needed. Madmac, the rivets on the trailing edge throw more confusion in that case, I would call them.conventional not double flush? As this pic of the underside of the trailing adge shows... Generated from my Samsung SM-A105G using tools.sportscard.tradeThis pic seems to show the beginning of the taper on the trailing edge near the cutout you mention and show in your pics... Generated from my Samsung SM-A105G using tools.sportscard.tradeThanks everyone for your input, very interesting learning from such a wealth of knowledge!
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Post by denysjones on May 5, 2020 8:17:18 GMT 12
Thanks for the P/N Chris.
Your P/Ns do not exist in my parts book which is AN 01-55EC-4 dated August 1 1943.
The numerical index jumps from 10256 to 10265 and again from 10398 to 10402 is I'd venture the suggestion that your flap section was manufactured sometime after that manual date and is a flap subject to modification with new parts allocated new numbers in the "missing" sequence blocks.
10259 looks to me to be a strengthening addition perhaps based on in service experience of cracking. The proof would be if someone has a later dated version of the parts book and they appear therein.
cheers
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Post by davidd on May 5, 2020 10:52:28 GMT 12
Could be the "redesigned" flap introduced during the PV-1 production run as I alluded to in my 1 May post. My source of this information was the maintenance manuals rather than the IPB. David D
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