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Post by shorty on Sept 28, 2021 13:28:58 GMT 12
If the date on the back (1937) is correct then they can't be Vincents as they didn't arrive until 1939, and I've only seen the "go fast"stripes on the spats of the early Vildebeestes
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 28, 2021 15:08:36 GMT 12
Yes, but if the location is incorrect than the date may also be too.
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Post by shorty on Sept 28, 2021 15:41:00 GMT 12
That is why I started "If"
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 29, 2021 8:48:11 GMT 12
I wonder if the photo was taken during an exercise deployment somewhere as the aircraft also have covers over the cockpit. At Wigram they were usually housed in the hangars overnight?
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Post by davidd on Sept 29, 2021 12:41:57 GMT 12
The officer congratulating our (still unidentified) Sergeant pilot looks very much like an Air Commodore, and I think he looks like C E Kay in this view, but Kay would have been of higher rank by then I think. (Kay was CAS, and AOC RNZAF June 1956 - July 1958, in rank of AVM). Also interesting that this man is displaying "Identification" badges on shoulder - they should have been long gone by November 1957, in fact I think they were ordered to be removed by 31st December, 1948!
NEWSFLASH!! Just realized that "NEW ZEALAND" shoulder badges were re-introduced in 1954 (will have to locate the authority for this - presume to do with the move of 41 Sqdn, and 14 Squadron to Singapore in April/May 1955), no doubt to make their nationality more obvious! These badges were only fir wear inn that theatre, and were to be removed on return to NZ by the individuals. But did members of this squadron ever wear similar badges when they were serving in Cyprus 1952 - 55? After all, this was another location where they flew alongside other Commonwealth air forces, including armament camps at Malta, and not to forget the Coronation tour of East Africa in 1953! "Our" Cyprus-based Vampires only wore RAF markings throughout this period, although a few featured some "Kiwiana".
As to identity of the Sergeant pilot, a very tricky one. When were the last surviving sgt pilots finally "wiped out" by being awarded commissions?
And I think "TS" is on to it, that both Vincent/Vilde picture and the 1957 photograph almost certainly appear to have been taken at the same station, and that would be Whenuapai. Somebody should have a gander at the Whenuapai Station History for November 1957 and see what it says. But beware, the copy of this history held at Wigram is incomplete, with many gaps, and some disputed dates.
David D
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Post by camtech on Sept 29, 2021 14:59:44 GMT 12
My thought, David, is that this Sgt (and others in the photo wearing various brevets) were wartime pilots/Air Gunners/Navigators/etc who had remustered to a ground trade post war. Some possibly ex RAF, as well.
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Post by davidd on Sept 29, 2021 17:14:31 GMT 12
Could well be. Many do not realize that when a qualified military pilot decides (or is forced by medical circumstances) to cease flying for whatever reason, but remains in the service and retrains in a new "ground" trade, he is still permitted to wear his flying badges (as are any other aircrew trades), unless they did something so dreadful during their service that they had their badge removed permanently (pretty rare in peacetime, I imagine). So the legitimate wearing of a flying badge is no guarantee that the wearer is in fact presently qualified to carry out flying duties as many would imagine. However, if I am wrong in this assumption, the more knowledgeable Board members can speak up now.
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Post by baronbeeza on Sept 29, 2021 19:14:52 GMT 12
There are at least two ground trade officers in this pic that wore wings badges during their service. They were never pilots, GD Branch, though. Somewhere there will be a list of all non- GD branch that were awarded a brevet.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 29, 2021 19:15:01 GMT 12
I am almost sure that the Sgt Pilot thing continued till the mid-late 1950's. They were still very much a thing in 1955 as Sgt Jim Shaw was in the No. 75 Squadron Aerobatic Team that year.
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 30, 2021 9:02:59 GMT 12
From memory the last serving SGT pilots were commissioned around 1958. In regards to the ex-aircrew in ground trades, in the mid 1970s there was a GSH gate guard at Te Rapa who was an ex-pilot and had more ribbons on his chest that the Base Commander. Shorty might remember his name
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Post by shorty on Sept 30, 2021 10:32:59 GMT 12
I remember the gate guard but cant recall his name. I think he was the one with a speech impediment and some people thought he was a bit simple. He had been a bread delivery driver and had got hit in the back of the head by a big tray of bread when he had to brake suddenly which caused the problem but he showed me his certificate from the shrinks to state that he A-Okay and definitely had all his faculties.He reckoned he was the only guy at Te Rapa who had been certified sane and could prove it!
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Post by shorty on Sept 30, 2021 10:40:01 GMT 12
As an aside to my previous post, the gate barrier at Te Rapa was operated by mains water pressure on a C47 retraction jack controlled by a Vampire flap selector mounted beside the guardhouse door, pressure came from a standard garden tap and the exhaust water was simply discharged into the road gutter.
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Post by ZacYates on Sept 30, 2021 13:06:20 GMT 12
Now that's a cool piece of engineering work!
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Post by saratoga on Sept 30, 2021 17:18:33 GMT 12
Now that's a cool piece of engineering work! ..Until some poor Vampire pilots goes to drop the flaps...
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Post by classicman on Sept 30, 2021 19:17:15 GMT 12
Yes quite right about the non-GD officers on the wings course. In the Harvard course photo above front row second from the left is Dr John Faris, an RNZAF doctor who completed the course and rightfully wore his wings ever after without serving as an active pilot.
In my time there were doctors, psychs and engineers who qualified for the badge without continuing on after as pilots. Complete waste of training time and money in my opinion, and the practice seems to have petered out from the 90’s as training courses became more expensive and greater accountability demanded.
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Post by baronbeeza on Sept 30, 2021 21:41:05 GMT 12
Yes quite right about the non-GD officers on the wings course. In the Harvard course photo above front row second from the left is Dr John Faris, an RNZAF doctor who completed the course and rightfully wore his wings ever after without serving as an active pilot. In my time there were doctors, psychs and engineers who qualified for the badge without continuing on after as pilots. Complete waste of training time and money in my opinion, and the practice seems to have petered out from the 90’s as training courses became more expensive and greater accountability demanded. Yes John Faris and the other I know there is Des Ashton, an Engineering Officer. That is 1/76 course and while I can name many, I know I will be missing others. Across the front, John Dick, John Faris, John Grant (Navy), Des Ashton, Mike Booth, Lindsay Upjohn. Ian Gore and Pete Douglas are there and possibly Jeff Harris, DJ Watson and Roger Read. I think that was the last Harvard course.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 5, 2021 15:19:34 GMT 12
McFly brought this to my attention and we are both curios - Interesting photos of a ‘Long Service & Good Conduct’ medal parade in November 1957, which includes a highly decorated ‘Sgt Pilot’ (Air Force Medal, Distinguished Flying Medal etc?). I wonder who he was and perhaps your forum sleuths could find out – might have an interesting background..? Link and LinkMark McGuire emailed me this afternoon and says: So, I guess the most likely candidate is 76613 SGT Dodkin KHW? He does not appear in By Such Deeds so I suppose his wartime medals must be from service with the RAF or another British Empire county's Air Force.
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Post by McFly on Oct 5, 2021 17:13:12 GMT 12
So, I guess the most likely candidate is 76613 SGT Dodkin KHW? He does not appear in By Such Deeds so I suppose his wartime medals must be from service with the RAF or another British Empire county's Air Force. A little bit of research comes up with a 'Kenneth Harold William Dodkin' (born 13.09.1914) who was an RAF Pilot flying for No.138 (Special Duties) Squadron ( link) and flying in or dropping secret agents in over occupied Europe. As a Flt/Lt he was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC) on August 13th, 1943, and as a Sqn/Ldr the Dutch ‘Airman's Cross’ (Dutch: Vliegerkruis VK – link) on July 3rd, 1945 presumably for his work with Dutch agents?. Seems also at some point during the war (1943/44?) he transferred to an ‘Admin & Spec Branch’ and then to an ‘Equipment Branch’ of the RAF. Perhaps he wasn’t able to fly operationally anymore and transferred (remusterd?) to ground based roles? And presumably later transferred out to New Zealand and the RNZAF, gave up his Officers Commission and became an NCO..? Haven’t found his DFC citation which would clear some of his history up. (Third Supplement to The London Gazette Issue 36131 published on the 10 August 1943) Kenneth Dodkin while on 138 Sqn at RAF Tempsford with the SoE. Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC) Airman's Cross (Dutch: Vliegerkruis VK)
Dodkin died 11 Nov 1989 and is buried in the Serviceman's Section at Waikumete Cemetery.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 9, 2021 10:46:40 GMT 12
I was just looking at this terrific wartime photo of Woodbourne, which looks to be from around 1940-41. WbG1573-85 LINKAerial oblique view of RNZAF Station Woodbourne. It got me thinking. I lived and worked at Woodbourne for seven and a half months in 1989, but I really only ever saw a tiny portion of the base on the south side of SH6 in that time. This is because I was a trainee, not a basesider, so we were restricted from wandering around willy nilly to explore the base. So because I lived on the northern side of the highway in barracks at GSTS for the first three months and 4TTS barracks the rest of my time there, we would cross SH6 via the tunnel and I only really ever visited the main gate, the Airmen's Mess on Fairhall St, or march down Kingsford Smith Ave to turn left into Dix Street and march along past ARS and ERS and the Paint Shop to the end hangar where No. 4TTS was. Other paces visited were the Base Institute, the Medical and Dental Sections once each, the pool, and while at 4TTS there was a classroom over on the western side of base we had Tech Drawing and Metallurgy classes in. I do not recall going anywhere else other than one weekend I wandered along to the No. 104 Flight hangar to look at the gorgeous Cessna 421C Golden Eagles but I felt out of bounds so did not stick around. So what I have realised is I have no idea what most of the places at Woodbourne were. And as I looked at that photo I noted all the H-blocks along Fairhall Sreet, They are marked on the Google map as C7114, C7096, and the unmarked block in between them. Also C7117. What were these? Are/were the baseside accommodation blocks? I assume they were for trainee airmen in WWII but what about in modern times?
Something else I noted was the hallowed, sacred GSTS Parade Ground from my days there in 1989 was in the 1940's merely another set of tennis courts! They are the ones on the left here. It looks desolate without all the trees, like the rows of English Plains down Kingsford Smith Avenue.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 9, 2021 10:47:24 GMT 12
Does anyone have one of those base maps from circa 1989 that had all the building purposes marked on it please?
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