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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 26, 2022 12:19:38 GMT 12
The photo of NZ932 (DWNZ932b) on the photo files states it was as Wigram. As indicated in the accompanying text there is a query as to the background which looks like Woodbourne, or was it another aircraft as the accident file only states taxi accident. While a nose over could be classified as a "taxi accident" there is also the question of is it NZ932. There is a lot of confusion with the variations of "School" markings and associated NZ serial numbers. For example from my files the following School numbers do not directly relate to the NZ serial number Serial number (identified school number on airframe) NZ961 (1), NZ934 (14) NZ939 (20), NZ936 (21), NZ941 (22), NZ943 (25). Again it depends on the timeframe the photo was taken, a lot of the earlier school numbers were with the aircraft in all over yellow. However, by late 1943 serial numbers and side numbers seemed to be matched up, so the conclusion is that the photograph is most likely NZ932 at Wigram.
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Post by baz62 on Sept 26, 2022 12:37:06 GMT 12
Which photo Paul?
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 26, 2022 15:36:48 GMT 12
Go onto the air force museum photographic collection and in the search box type in DWN932b Should come up with a pic of NZ932 standing on its nose
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Post by camtech on Sept 26, 2022 18:06:14 GMT 12
Paul, a quick look at my files shows NZ932 indeed suffering a "taxy accident" on 2 October 1944 at Wigram (Accident report 25/2/1841). As I haven't got the accident report itself, the circumstances remain unclear. I have no record of an accident to NZ919 anywhere near that date. Both aircraft survived the war, being declared surplus and sold to Bennett Aviation. Some sleuthing required for this one. We do know that not all aircraft accidents were formally recorded.
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 27, 2022 9:57:19 GMT 12
Les, I have observed several occasions where nose overs (particularly with Harvards) were recorded as "Taxy" accidents. Probably because of the nature of the damage which may have only been Cat 2 or 3 at the most. A prop change, check of the main shaft and back into flying!!!
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Post by davidd on Sept 27, 2022 12:55:20 GMT 12
Harvards were somewhat unique in the wartime RNZAF in that they seem to have been the only type used by our training units that had their "code numbers" synchronized with their serial numbers for at least a part of the war. However, as already pointed out, this was not the case in the earlier days, in 1941, which was when the original Harvard Mk. II's in their factory-applied gloss yellow paint schemes were cavorting through our skies. These Harvards served with all three FTS's in operation during this period, and the Wigram (1 FTS) aircraft at least had consecutive code numbers applied on fuselage sides in black paint, plus tiny serial numbers about half-way up rudder, also repeated on lower surfaces of mainplanes in the RAF manner. However no other WW2 training types (at least so far as I know) featured synchronized code numbers, although plenty of our operational types did, at least later in war. Of course the "codes" of these latter aircraft were not really synchronized in the normal sense, they were simply repetitions of the "number" part of their serial number so that interested observers could identify the specific aircraft from various angles (if they were close enough). Why the practice as used on our early Harvards was introduced in the first place is anybody's guess, although it was probably as valid and useful as any other system.
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Post by camtech on Sept 27, 2022 13:47:45 GMT 12
Paul, a quick look at my files shows NZ932 indeed suffering a "taxy accident" on 2 October 1944 at Wigram (Accident report 25/2/1841). As I haven't got the accident report itself, the circumstances remain unclear. I have no record of an accident to NZ919 anywhere near that date. Both aircraft survived the war, being declared surplus and sold to Bennett Aviation. Some sleuthing required for this one. We do know that not all aircraft accidents were formally recorded. Looking at the photo again, I note NZ919's turned up wing tip, so obviously some shenanigan's here. As I said, there is no mention of NZ919's involvement, and 919 seems to have suffered some damage requiring tin bashing, which is difficult to hide from those who you didn't want to see it! I guess the real solution is to dig up the accident report.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 27, 2022 14:09:54 GMT 12
Harvards were somewhat unique in the wartime RNZAF in that they seem to have been the only type used by our training units that had their "code numbers" synchronized with their serial numbers for at least a part of the war.... However no other WW2 training types (at least so far as I know) featured synchronized code numbers, although plenty of our operational types did, at least later in war. The Operational Training Unit P-40's, and I suspect also their Corsairs, ended up with the last three digits of their serial on their cowl, but of course most of those P-40's also had FE- or OD- letter codes too.
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 27, 2022 14:30:44 GMT 12
Les, you have identified a question or two. The photo of NZ932 at Wigram does show a bent wingtip at the very right of the pic, but as you stay the NZAP201 entry does not mention another aircraft. Like you I looked all around those file numbers with no success in mentioning another aircraft. I wonder if the other one just had a wing tip changed, not worthy of an accident entry??? NZ919 had a few "adventures" during its career
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Post by camtech on Sept 28, 2022 12:23:48 GMT 12
Les, you have identified a question or two. The photo of NZ932 at Wigram does show a bent wingtip at the very right of the pic, but as you stay the NZAP201 entry does not mention another aircraft. Like you I looked all around those file numbers with no success in mentioning another aircraft. I wonder if the other one just had a wing tip changed, not worthy of an accident entry??? NZ919 had a few "adventures" during its career Agree, Paul. Even so, it is difficult to believe that no record appears to exist of the incident involving the other aircraft. That wingtip damage is more than superficial and would have taken a bit of panel beating to hide. Would be interesting to read the accident report in full! Many years ago, I was at Wigram working in the Instrument section, when two of us were sent to 6 Hangar to find a replacement wing for a Harvard that had a minor ding in the leading edge. Took us several attempts to find one that didn't have a leak in the pitot static system. Memory tells me there were quite a few wings stacked up, as we had to move several to get to the good one. Mixture of silver and yellow schemes.
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 28, 2022 15:08:17 GMT 12
Yep the good old days when 6 shed was full of fueslages and wings and engines!!
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Post by hrvd1068 on Sept 30, 2022 21:21:15 GMT 12
I have NZ932 log book so what do you want to know?
I can tell you it had a rear fuse and forward tube frame replacement 20-10-44 and engine no9032 replaced with engine no8747. Its interesting to see another entry that states aircraft damaged during night flying collision with another aircraft entry is from 3-10-44 to 20-10-44
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Post by camtech on Oct 1, 2022 15:51:51 GMT 12
That confirms what we already know that NZ932 was in a collision during night flying and the dates tie up. Not sure how the rear fuse and forward tube frame matches the photo.
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Post by hrvd1068 on Oct 1, 2022 18:53:14 GMT 12
I havent seen the photo so cant comment on that. I can only go off whats in the log book.
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Post by tbf2504 on Oct 2, 2022 9:07:28 GMT 12
Was it one of those that had a wooden rear fuselage that were gradually replaced with metal ones towards the end of the war?
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Post by davidd on Oct 2, 2022 9:43:16 GMT 12
No, those were the Mk. IIA's apparently (actually only a small proportion of them, such as 1046, 1047, and 1070), the fate of latter being mentioned in the "big book". I think these rear fuselage "upgrades" were incorporated in the 1950s, with new rear fuselages from the USA.
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Post by Antonio on Oct 3, 2022 16:04:39 GMT 12
MUS22023: 3/4 rear view of No. 75 Squadron Vampire NZ5711. Unknown location.Lovely pic. Anyone help with the location? Clue - Mt Cook ZK-AOD in the background.
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Post by Antonio on Oct 3, 2022 16:09:10 GMT 12
MUS961834: Image from the Ron F Killick personal collection. Side view of Vampire NZ5711 in front of a hangar. Unknown date or location.This one is interesting in that the Fern Leaf is facing backwards.
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Post by noooby on Oct 3, 2022 17:57:53 GMT 12
MUS22023: 3/4 rear view of No. 75 Squadron Vampire NZ5711. Unknown location.Lovely pic. Anyone help with the location? Clue - Mt Cook ZK-AOD in the background. Momona???
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chrisr
Squadron Leader
Posts: 102
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Post by chrisr on Oct 3, 2022 19:19:59 GMT 12
Looks like Momona to me too.
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