pops2
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 7
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Post by pops2 on Jan 15, 2021 21:14:58 GMT 12
Obviously the used Australian F-18s were abit outside the NZ Defence budget.
With the Australians looking for Apache helicopters to replace their Tiger attack/ recon helicopters with, should the NZDF do an early EOI to pick a few of the better condition Tigers from the fleet if there are any? (Obviously due diligence on the longevity and issues etc)
Aussie pilots talk up the Tiger.
The Tiger weighs around 6 tonne so it is a bit more transportable than other military hardware.
Potential role in the NZDF for the Tiger.
Primarily as a training support for the likes of the SAS / D Squad etc. (so if they are deployed to situation where Apaches are operating, they have trained with similar helicopters before)
Reduce reliance on coalition partners to provide air support when in peace keeping environments that require an aerial defence presence for road patrols. (IED recon etc)
Operate as a more 'kinetic' piece of hardware than what the current nz drone capability is.
Provide defence/ offense for the NH90 for troop placement and uplift from potentially hostile environments.
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Post by mcmaster on Jan 15, 2021 22:11:14 GMT 12
Maybe in these increasingly uncertain times NZ needs to rethink the ACF. Singapore will be replacing its F16s with F35s at the end of the decade. Just an idea. ..
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 16, 2021 8:21:09 GMT 12
I think there is one thing very certain about these uncertain times, our current government will not be rearming the Air Force. They have spent millions on disarming the nation, how could they justify their Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control if they go round buying combat aircraft?
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jan 16, 2021 8:31:32 GMT 12
The Tiger has been another Aussie procurement disaster (do they learn nothing!). It seems they have found it to be unreliable, very expensive, difficult to operate and maintain, with significant OEM support/supply chain issues. Their MRH-90s have the same issues (will it be the next to go?). Not a good look for Airbus Helicopters but a big part of the problem IMHO is they are operated and maintained by the Australian Army. If the logistics (and possibly the operating) were put back under the Air Force they might get better results.
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Post by noooby on Jan 16, 2021 16:35:22 GMT 12
The Tiger has been another Aussie procurement disaster (do they learn nothing!). It seems they have found it to be unreliable, very expensive, difficult to operate and maintain, with significant OEM support/supply chain issues. Their MRH-90s have the same issues (will it be the next to go?). Not a good look for Airbus Helicopters but a big part of the problem IMHO is they are operated and maintained by the Australian Army. If the logistics (and possibly the operating) were put back under the Air Force they might get better results. Exactly what some Aussie military brass were saying. Army are soldiers first. Air Force are soldiers last. Compare the Aussie Seasprite program to the Kiwi program. Compare the Aussie NH90 program to the Kiwi NH90 program. We are streets ahead with both types. No reason why we couldn't do the same with the Tiger. |
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Post by machina on Jan 16, 2021 18:04:46 GMT 12
I wonder if we’ll replace our Sprites with NFH-90s.
Anyway, how about Cobras for attach choppers?
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Post by kiwirob on Jan 19, 2021 21:15:43 GMT 12
I think there is one thing very certain about these uncertain times, our current government will not be rearming the Air Force. They have spent millions on disarming the nation, how could they justify their Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control if they go round buying combat aircraft? Neither of our main political parties are interested in defense, the only party in recent years that are is NZ First. |
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Post by madmac on Jan 19, 2021 21:37:27 GMT 12
Hmm, given recent use of loitering munitions, how much longer will there be a place for helicopters anywhere near a front line, they appear to simply lack the performance to stay out of the lethal envelope of cheap loitering munitions (battle fields consisting of kicking the S*** out of poor 3rd world countries doesn't really count).
In 1913 there was a War office report stating that the GB had a good handle on machine guns (I can't remember the exact line it was stronger than that), we are close to that point with drones I think.
Money would be better spent on loitering munitions, and high kinetic aircraft.
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Post by machina on Jan 20, 2021 18:13:45 GMT 12
I agree with Dave that it will never happen, but if you’re talking helicopters for CAS surely you may as well just go with fighters and get every other capability they offer as well.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Jan 21, 2021 21:22:22 GMT 12
Hmm, given recent use of loitering munitions, how much longer will there be a place for helicopters anywhere near a front line, they appear to simply lack the performance to stay out of the lethal envelope of cheap loitering munitions (battle fields consisting of kicking the S*** out of poor 3rd world countries doesn't really count). In 1913 there was a War office report stating that the GB had a good handle on machine guns (I can't remember the exact line it was stronger than that), we are close to that point with drones I think. Money would be better spent on loitering munitions, and high kinetic aircraft. What makes you think any NZ govt will have the guts to commit the NZDF to a combat role in any battlefield other than a 3rd world conflict. |
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Post by vansvilla on Jan 23, 2021 13:43:06 GMT 12
So is this another example where the Aussies took a perfectly capable aircraft and "improved" it.
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Post by madmac on Jan 23, 2021 18:14:41 GMT 12
]What makes you think any NZ govt will have the guts to commit the NZDF to a combat role in any battlefield other than a 3rd world conflict. By definition the Defence Force doesn't exist for "Optional Conflicts". |
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Post by richard1098 on Jan 23, 2021 21:37:19 GMT 12
So is this another example where the Aussies took a perfectly capable aircraft and "improved" it. No. France scaled back its orders significantly, as did Germany. The latter has also defunded the program to such an extent few airframes are air worthy. The result, financial implosion of the whole program. |
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Post by kiwirico on Jan 29, 2021 8:59:41 GMT 12
Don't know if the Tiger is the right chopper for RNZAF, but it would be a good idea to have a armed helicopter in future for UN led operations in future conflicts to support ground troops or NH.90's escort.
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