Mystery Piece

[Dave Homewood]

This has been sent to by Graham Orphan at Omaka:

Here's an interesting item that perhaps might be of interest for some speculation on one of your threads.

I found this panel in an antique store in provincial New Zealand. It measures approx 45 cm x 45 cm and is of typical pre-war aircraft construction with light weight timber frame and stringers, cotton covering with red nitrate dope base and WW-II camouflage on top. You'll note what appears to be the remains of a squadron code letter. - 'C' perhaps?

Two metal keepers at the top and spring loaded slide catches at the bottom will have secured it in place.

Can anyone identify what type of aircraft this might have come from?

Cheers,
G

[saratoga]

Wood and fabric construction, camo green and brown. Oxford maybe?

[markrogers]

4 Possibilties-

Oxford
Anson
Hind
Vincent or Vildebeest

Could it be from an Anson?

[shorty]

Not an Anson or Oxford. Look at photos of both types and there is no rectangular panel visible at those colour seperations. Bear in mind that camo patterns are not random but done to specific designs therefore the areas to look at clearly defined. Oxford fuselages are ply covered not fabric which takes them out of the equation.

[emron]

Here’s another suggestion. There’s a similar shape hatch left side of the Hind below the gunner’s position (radio access). I don’t know if the colours or dimensions match but it looks to be the same number of stringers. One difference though, is that the latches on the Hind one slide horizontal rather than vertical.

[madmac]

The latch directions seem to be inconsistent, the Persian hinds (and the Latvian ones so late production ones) below has horizontal latches as do Hartbeests (although their panels are only half height). Given that there are plenty of photos of these aircraft (Hinds Harts Audaxs etc) without these panels, I guess they were fitted when a radio was fitted. So some of these panels may have been field fabricated.

[McFly]

So looking at these two photos would seem to indicate, that yes the panel in question may well have come from an RNZAF Hawker Hind from No. 20 Army Cooperation (AC) Sqn with the code letters ZG…!

In this first photo (NelG865-44) of a collection of aircraft at Nelson in 1944, there is lad standing next to the fuselage either fitting or removing a similar ribbed panel with the same two top locating lugs and (presumably) two lower horizontal latches. The zoomed photo shows this in more detail.

“RNZAF display at Nelson. Aircraft on display are Baffin NZ152, Hind NZ1533, Hudson, Kittyhawk, Oxford, Harvard, Tiger Moth and a Hind with no fabric on the fuselage.”

(Air Force Museum Collection)






In this second photo (NelG891-44) also taken in 1944 in Nelson. The damaged Hind on the right with the code letters ZG, you can just make out the lines of the panel in question, with the zoomed in photo showing more clearly the top of the panel bisecting the upper portion of the code letter ‘G’ before it turns down and ends in the same diagonal fashion as the letter on mystery panel in question. And in the original posters photos of the panel you can also faintly make out the horizontal part of the letter G on the panel which matches with this Nelson photo.

“Upside down Tiger Moth and two Hinds, destroyed by a gale at RNZAF Station Nelson.”

(Air Force Museum Collection)




Some additional Hinds for reference.

[emron]

I can make out numbers painted on the inside top left – something like “6741”. That could be part of the old RAF serial.

[tbf2504]

A quick look at the AF38 shows Hinds with "K67XX" numbers that it could be are NZ1501/K6701, NZ1535/K6721, The latter was at the TTS at Nelson so if any bits were to survive then it would have
been a good place for them.

[tbf2504]

Add to my last above NZ1504/K6761

[Dave Homewood]

I have been away in the country for the weekend but just returned to civilisation and found a message on my phone from Don Subritzky who confirms that the piece is from Hawker Hind. Thanks Don!

[markrogers]

It does look like it may have come from the damaged Hind in the Nelson photo!

[baronbeeza]

Feb 1, 2021 16:05:33 GMT 12 markrogers said:

It does look like it may have come from the damaged Hind in the Nelson photo!

Or the one the kid souvenired during the display.

[emron]

I think that the hatch in the schoolboy’s hands is the best match and most likely the same one as our mystery piece.
OK, now who can help to identify the aircraft that he’s removing the panel from. The Museum photo archive description has it as a Baffin NZ152 !!.
From newspaper accounts I gather this was the RNZAF show at Trafalgar Park, Nelson on 19 February 1944. I can only read NZ152_ off the Hind in the foreground. It looks like 3 from that series ended up at Nelson, 1520, 24 and 29. If it is one of these 3 there’s no record of if any of them carrying the ZG squadron code prior. My guess is that they dressed up these two Hinds especially for the show and borrowed a hatch off an ex 20 Sqn machine before giving them both a dusting of new paint. It looks like NZ1533 is the correct ID for the one behind.
As for that gale/tornado that ripped through the Nelson RNZAF Station and caused so much mayhem, it happened only a few days after the show on 22 February. Maybe a neighbour found a certain hatch in their backyard afterwards.

[McFly]

Here's another photo showing some more damaged No.20 (AC) Sqn Hinds with the ZG reg letters following the same 'gale' at Nelson. Perhaps they were the donor Hinds for the mystery panel..?


Two hinds and a Vildebeest (NZ130), destroyed by a gale, in the water beside RNZAF Station Nelson. (NelG900-44)

(Air Force Museum Collection)

[emron]

Interesting, I thought there was only 2 from the squadron at Nelson by then; ZG-E (NZ1563) and ZG-F (NZ1517) and one of these must be the other Hind that’s on-shore under the Tiger Moth. I guess we still need to account for more, perhaps ZG-A and ZG-K too. I can see that 2 out of the 3 that there are photos of still have the hatches on, but without knowing what their serial numbers were it’s hard to narrow the list of possible candidates any further.

[baronbeeza]

There is another pic of a silver Hind laying on it's back and captioned the same gale.

fotoweb.airforcemuseum.co.nz/fotoweb/archives/5003-Search-the-Collection/?q=hind

[madmac]

The hind marked NZ152, the serial marking is a whole letter spaced after aft than the other hind, me thinks someone stuffed up on the aircraft. Slightly interestingly the aft hind is marked with "first aid" which is a marking absent from the nearer.

[davidd]

The Hind flat on its back does not look like a "silver" doped aircraft to me, more like overall yellow I would say. However cannot explain why it should be overall yellow, as not what you would expect. Then again it is an INST airframe at the TTS at Nelson, so anything is possible.

Not very impressed by the coloured side view of a 6 Sqdn Hind earlier in thread. In 1940? - I don't think so! Make that sometime in 1942. Also the colours don't look like anything I would imagine the RNZAF used in the war years - both the green and brown colours look WAY off.

David D