RNZAF Vickers Vildebeest/Vincent Camouflage question

[alanw]

Hi All,

2nd set of questions if I may?

There are photos of Vildebeest's wearing Camouflage
during WWII as in this RNZAF Photo from The RNZAF Museum Collection

fotoweb.airforcemuseum.co.nz/fotoweb/cache/5003/Collection/PR4453.t5f334526.m800.xxkZ2VzpG.jpg

Couple of questions come to mind?

1) Did the RNZAF follow the RAF style of Countershading
i.e. say wearing Dark Earth/Dark Green Upper wings and
a lighter Earth/Green on the lower wings?

2) Given that some Vildebeest's/Vincent's survived till at least
1943/44ish (even if as instructional frames), would it be a most
likely scenario that they would be wearing the RNZAF Pacific Scheme
of Dark Green/NZ Blue Sea Grey? My thoughts are yes, but
would be interested if there is any evidence of this?

Again thanks for any comments inquiring minds needing to know again

Regards

Alan

[davidd]

Alan,
Little reliable information has been located to date on the colours actually applied to the RNZAF's Vincent/Vilde in 1940/43 period unfortunately, although it should be noted that when the early (ex RAF) Vildes started to arrive in NZ from about mid/late 1940 onwards, they all seemed to be in various types of disruptive camouflage, possibly dark earth/dark green, but nothing concrete known of the actual shades. These finishes would have been applied in the UK consequent on the outbreak of war in late 1939, and were presumably dictated by the contemporary ideas within Coastal Command HQ (or wherever lay the supposed authorities on such obscure subjects).

Vincents likely all arrived in the normal RAF "desert colours" of overall aluminium dope ("silver") plus the special anodised finish applied to all metal surfaces, which appeared to the casual observer to be a nice layer of glossy light grey. In about mid/late-1941 (or shortly thereafter) the RNZAF began applying the well-known (in B&W photographs only) camouflage scheme which MAY have been disruptive patterns of dark earth/dark green on all upwards facing surfaces, and perhaps duck-egg green on all side and downwards-facing surfaces, regardless of whether surface was linen or metal. Type "B" roundels were usually associated with this scheme, but of course in those early days, finflashes were out of fashion, and serial numbers were still marked on the rudder (if I recall correctly, and I wasn't even there!)

This all changed in perhaps March/April 1942 when dark earth/dark green camouflage was extended to lower edges of fuselage, and all side surfaces (including fin/rudder) were also in camouflage, but now with appropriate finflashes, and back to Type A1 fuselage roundels (which were probably first seen on the second-hand Vildes). This scheme would have been applied to aircraft with Nos. 4 and 5 Squadrons in Fiji, Nos. 7 and 8 in New Zealand, as well as the aircraft of the School of General Reconnaissance at Omaka (until they were eased out by new Ansons from about August/Sept 42). Drogue towing Vincents/Vildes with various semi-operational units may have had odd schemes, including camouflage, but later (later 43/44) they tended to be in the overall yellow scheme.

Later (perhaps by early 1943), surviving Vincents/Vildes with the op squadrons began, like most other operational aircraft, to acquire Type C roundels, and finflashes, although we cannot say how quickly these were introduced. And although I would like to say that the Section 33B Reference N118 colour (Blue Sea Grey) was used to cover the original Dark Earth colour on these aircraft during 1943, I have seen no physical evidence of this actually happening (although we cannot rule out that it did happen!) It should be remembered that when the new Blue Sea Grey paint colour was announced by medium of an AFO Order in March 1943, that this colour was intended to be used on Kittyhawk and Hudson aircraft to cover the original dark earth areas, so as to improve the camouflage effect over the sea. Nothing was mentioned about any other in-service operational aircraft types, including Hinds, Gordons, Singapores, Ansons, or Vincents/Vildes. In July 1944. permission was granted for the Ansons at New Plymouth to have their dark earth areas replaced by the NZ Sea Blue Grey, and the same went for the three Hudsons now on the strength of this school. Hudsons located in the New Hebrides and Solomons areas from November 1942 onwards also began adopting a blue grey paint to cover the dark earth areas of their camouflage, although it is thought that US Navy paint was acquired locally from the Americans for supplies of this colour, at least initially. It is possible that NZ-manufactured paint was subsequently shipped up from NZ, but authoritative statements in surviving documentation which would answer such questions has not been located to date. It is a known fact that some Hudsons survived the war still in the original dark green/dark earth camouflage colours.

The precious remains of a Vincent/Vilde at the RNZAF Museum includes a good selection of metal fuselage panels shows the anodised light grey, plus dark earth/dark green camouflage, as well as a final coat of training yellow (drogue towing scheme), but no 33B/N118 Blue Sea Grey!

The RNZAF during WW2 occasionally suffered slightly fractious relations with Air Ministry when it came to "appropriate" colour schemes for operational aircraft, including the famous incident concerning underwing roundels on such aircraft. Many aircraft arrived in NZ without any underwing roundels (I think this mainly affected Hudsons, perhaps also Ansons) in 1942, although contemporary Air Ministry literature still specified such markings. RNZAF questioned Air Ministry as to what was the current thinking, but the latter never replied, so RNZAF finally did what it should have done in the first place, and made up its own mind - they reintroduced underwing roundels, partly because members of the Air Training Corps (and the public at large!) reported that suspicious aircraft without roundels were being spotted in different parts of the country. The official RNZAF publicity about enemy aircraft always mentioned that OUR aircraft all had conspicuous underwing roundels!

This episode just goes to show that the contemporary (1942) RNZAF was used to following Air Ministry pronouncements without question, whereas those parts of the RAF in distant lands far across the seas from Adastral House were at liberty to concoct their own recipes for camouflage schemes should they desire to do so for operational reasons, mainly because they were in the ideal place to decide on what blended in with local conditions, landscape, etc.

My ten cents worth on the Vincent/Vilde colour questions posed.

David D

[alanw]

Hi David,

Thank you again for answering my questions, I learn so much


I find it fascinating (again) that whilst at the time
the RNZAF was a Separate Service to the RAF, it was still very
much tied to Air Ministry Orders/Direction
This of course begs a load more questions (for another day) to be
asked i.e was the NZ Sea Blue Grey/Dark Green Scheme a version of
the RAF Day Fighter Scheme, revised to suit Pacific conditions?

Thanks again

Regards

Alan

[tbf2504]

Air Board Orders (ABO) (Which were a direct copy of the RAF Air Board Orders, with some minor tweaks for the RNZAF were not abandoned by the RNZAF until the early 1980s. In these orders were the
general statements for aircraft finishes, which were then copied across into NZAP2656A (External Finish of Aircraft) again as David says with variations for local supply of paints etc.
I can recall in the late 1970s discovering in ABO's that "aircraft radiators were not to be painted unless the manufacturer had approved the paint" In this context the last aircraft that the RNZAF
flew with external radiators were the Bristol Fighters!

[davidd]

Alan, I would say that RNZAF scheme you describe in your last post COULD be described as such, but it was intended for fighters AND bombers, and had to employ locally produced (or at least available) paints. BALM (NZ Branch!) had its own chemist, so was quite capable of using available raw materials (most probably sourced from Australia, including pigments) to produce any colour they desired, although it also had tins of standard USAAF colours shipped to NZ in (probably) 1944 for use on US Army-type aircraft (C-47,s C-60s, C-63s, and P-40s). RNZAF units in operational areas under American control (and plugged into their logistics system) could also obtain standard American paints (mostly Navy) at will, although I think Treasury tried to insist that they should utilise locally produced paints if at all possible (the NZ Taxpayer had paid to have these paints produced at some considerable cost, which influenced these decisions).
David D