catg
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 5
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Post by catg on Oct 30, 2021 19:13:09 GMT 12
Hello all
I am not sure if this post is allowed?
Does anyone know of a Navigator in the RNZAF named Donald McDougall (or Macdougall)? He is my grandfather but my mother was adopted so we have no more details than above. We found my mother’s real mum 20 years ago in New Zealand. She said that she met Donald in England where he had been posted and that he was an Air Gunner in the RNZAF in WW2. That’s all the details we have sadly. I would love to find him. He did write to my grandmother in Ireland when he returned to NZ but she didn’t reply although she said she wished she had. My grandmother moved out to NZ not long after the war.
I would be grateful for any information or if anyone could point me in the right direction of where to begin my search.
Thank you in advance.
Caroline
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catg
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 5
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Post by catg on Oct 30, 2021 20:40:49 GMT 12
I also have a photograph of Donald.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 31, 2021 8:35:49 GMT 12
Well there is an RNZAF Aircrew trainee in this course photo called D.H. McDougall. It does not look like the chap in your photo though Caroline. Air Force Museum of New Zealand photo 2013-278.25 Image from the GN Dew personal collection. Group. Pilots course 25c 'A' Squad, No. 3 Service Flying Training School, RNZAF Station Ohakea. L-R: Back; GP Broun, CG Foster, WJ Collins, H Boundy, DH McDougall. Middle; EH Andrews, WD McKay, IHW Baulf, R Brough, DR Browne, RF Elliott. Front; PJ Donnelly, TS Hambrook, JV Hawkins, JL Henry, J Hay, FP Ladd. A closer look:
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 31, 2021 8:41:04 GMT 12
D.H. McDougall also appears in this photo: Air Force Museum of New Zealand photo HbH482 Group. 'A' Flight of Pilots course 25D. No. 4 Elementary Flying Training School, RNZAF Station Whenuapai. L-R: Back; DAF Smith, DJ Tickle, FP Ladd, JH Platt, WD McKay, DH McDougall, DI Stewart. Middle; RA Neil, CFH Mansfield, RE Robotham, FK Woodward, DB Mearns, CG Foster, WR Perrott, DA McGahey, WL Neal. Front; LA Ryburn, IRV Ruff, HL Tambour, AJ Renshaw, CJ Whitelaw, CCB Thaugland, NL Purdie, J Johnston, JA Marson A close up:
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 31, 2021 8:43:37 GMT 12
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Post by McFly on Oct 31, 2021 8:50:39 GMT 12
Dave I think your 'DH McDougall' is 'Flight Sergeant Douglas Haig McDougall' who died in a crash of an Oxford at Wigram in Dec 1943. "19 December 1943 - An aircraft of the Royal New Zealand Air Force crashed near a South Island air station shortly after 5.30 p.m. The two occupants lost their lives. They were: Woman Aircraftman (first class)[WAAF] Miss Marion Frances YOUNG, 20 years, whose mother is Mrs M F Young, of Taupo. Sergeant Douglas Haig McDOUGALL [McDOUGAL], 26 years, whose wife is Mrs B E McDougall, of Auckland. The aeroplane was engaged on an exercise flight. New Zealand Herald, Volume 80, Issue 24772, 21 December 1943, Page 4" - Link Here
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 31, 2021 8:54:36 GMT 12
Ah yes, I'm sure you are correct Marty. Not him then.
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Post by McFly on Oct 31, 2021 10:10:34 GMT 12
I also have a photograph of Donald. With reference to the photo of Donald - The aircrew brevet partially visible on his tunic looks to be 'AG' (Air Gunner - which may include Wireless Operator W/Op) as opposed to 'N' (Navigator), so presumably an NCO rank of either Sergeant (Sgt) or Flight Sergeant (FltSgt) as Navigators were usually Commissioned Officers. This may help narrow down finding something on his service history? NB: The initial reference to Donald being a Navigator may be down to the various descriptions of service & branch etc. getting clouded in the passage of time.? "Wireless operator/air gunner – The role was to send and receive wireless signals during the flight, assisting the observer with triangulation "fixes" to aid navigation when necessary and if attacked to use the defensive machine gun armament of the bomber to fight off enemy aircraft. In the early stages of the war usually an enlisted man, he could hold any rank from aircraftman 2nd class (until 27 May 1940)[33] upwards but most often a sergeant. A wireless operator/air gunner wore a single-winged aircrew flying badge with a wreath containing the letters AG or S on his tunic, above his left breast pocket denoting his trade specialisation and a cloth arm patch featuring lightning bolts.
Air gunner – The role was to defend the bomber using the aircraft's machine guns. In the early stages of the war usually an enlisted man, he could hold any rank from aircraftman 2nd class (until June 1940) upwards but most often a sergeant although some air gunners were commissioned officers of which a small number were considerably older than most aircrew and even veterans of World War I. An air gunner wore a single-winged aircrew flying badge with a wreath containing the letters AG on his tunic, above his left breast pocket denoting his trade specialisation and very early in the war might also have the brass "winged bullet" qualification badge of a pre-war air gunner on his sleeve."
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catg
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 5
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Post by catg on Oct 31, 2021 11:02:24 GMT 12
Thank you, so much for the info that’s so helpful. I’m sure you are correct. My grandmother thought she remembered him being a navigator but it was a over 60 years later that she was trying to remember details when she first met my mum. The photo was actually found by my mum’s half brother in my grandmother’s belongings after she had passed. It was hidden away tucked inside the back cover of a journal. My uncle had never seen the man before and presumed it must be my mum’s dad so gave her the picture. I’m hoping it’s not a red herring but the fact that the man is in uniform and in the airforce makes me believe that it must be Donald.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 31, 2021 11:56:56 GMT 12
Caroline emailed me this: "Hi Dave I’ve asked my mum to send another picture of the photo and sure enough it has the AG badge clearly on his jacket! Please can you post this photo so that Mcfly can see that he is correct. Thanks Caroline"
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