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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2022 10:10:11 GMT 12
Hi all, A while back Shorty posted this: When I was at Te Rapa in the mid 70's I was doing some research through the Waikato Times archives and I came across a newspaper report where a group of farmers were investigating buying some surplus Lancasters in the UK, bringing them back to NZ with the idea of using them for topdressing the hill country. NOW that would have been a sight to behold! Needless to say the idea did not come to fruition, more's the pity. Was this a real proposal, or just an idea? And who put it forward? The idea of an AgLanc is crazy but also appealing! I’ll have to check out the Waikato Times on Papers Past. |
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Post by nuuumannn on Jan 30, 2022 9:58:00 GMT 12
Sounds pretty crazy, but doable, I guess for a short while, although operating at low altitudes would shorten the aircraft's service life considerably. The amount of fatigue the airframe suffered would be considerable. Although the Lanc was relatively manoeuvrable, it wasn't really designed for manoeuvring at low altitude continuously. A few years back now the BBMF resparred their Lancaster, the first and only time that's happened to enable it to last a bit longer, but the type wasn't designed for rigorous service. Imagine seeing that though. I remember as a kid watching a top dressing Dak being thrown about over the hills once, very impressive.  Lancaster bomb doors |
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Post by Mustang51 on Jan 30, 2022 11:19:02 GMT 12
I may be completely wrong but wasn't one of the reasons for resparring, apart from obvious age and work hardening of the material, the fact of the engines 'hanging' off the wing and inducing stresses never contemplated for a supposed short life aircraft? May have pulled this out of a Jack Daniels blurred memory but thought it was one of the reasons. That Brit aluminium of the period also had a propensity to corrode more that the US produced material.
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Post by nuuumannn on Jan 30, 2022 14:17:12 GMT 12
I may be completely wrong but wasn't one of the reasons for resparring, apart from obvious age and work hardening of the material, the fact of the engines 'hanging' off the wing and inducing stresses never contemplated for a supposed short life aircraft? May have pulled this out of a Jack Daniels blurred memory but thought it was one of the reasons. That Brit aluminium of the period also had a propensity to corrode more that the US produced material. To my knowledge pretty much. It simply wasn't designed for continuous service for as long as the BBMF had it operating for, although the airframe was inherently strong. It's something that the Panton brothers might have to be wary of especially since their aircraft, an MR.7 spent much of its service career scooting about at low-level over the sea. The British ali corroding is and isn't true, it depends on the source. I knew a guy who had a chunk of Britsol Freighter main spar and he said that it was corrosion free and some of the finest ali he'd seen, after all the time it had been exposed to the weather. |
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Post by madmac on Jan 30, 2022 14:23:04 GMT 12
Given the quality control issues of the period and the length of intended operation, re-sparing is likely prudent even without a known problem. I can think of at least 2 sets of wings lost from period aircraft due to one bad rivet hole (The privateer and goose), & atleast 2 examples of wings attached to the wrong fuselage frame (Bae Nimrod & a Dak that went though the turboprop conversion)
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Post by Mustang51 on Jan 30, 2022 14:32:51 GMT 12
Age hardening is a major problem
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Post by Antonio on Jan 30, 2022 15:26:05 GMT 12
Age hardening is a major problem Tell me about it....  |
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Post by madmac on Jan 30, 2022 18:22:21 GMT 12
From memory the Age Harding at room temperature for heat treatable aluminum requires some thing like 300 years, unless there are parts of the spar subject to sustained heating, it seems unlikely. Possibly the bigger issue would be the lack of data for aluminum with that degree of aging.
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Post by Mustang51 on Jan 30, 2022 18:41:32 GMT 12
Bob Eastgate did some extensive testing of metal on Spitfire engine mounts and found that in some cases the strength had diminished by at least 15%. Do not know how that test was conducted but he said when he started any Spitfire work it would be complete rebuild
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Post by madmac on Jan 31, 2022 10:32:03 GMT 12
It would be interesting to know the details, as my understand is that composition of the alloys the English used in the 30's to 40's where a bit of a moving target (well at least for steel).
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Post by nuuumannn on Jan 31, 2022 11:25:19 GMT 12
It would be interesting to know the details, as my understand is that composition of the alloys the English used in the 30's to 40's where a bit of a moving target (well at least for steel). Pretty much with ali as well. Some manufacturer's aircraft corroded quickly, some not so much. Quality varied between manufacturer. The same today though, Airbus ali alloys have a bad reputation for corrosion and aircraft like the A320 and ATR don't take long before corrosion sets in. Air NZ's first A320s suffered terribly with corrosion issues, and new ATRs begin showing the effects of corrosion by their first C check. |
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When I was at Te Rapa in the mid 70's I was doing some research through the Waikato Times archives and I came across a newspaper report where a group of farmers were investigating buying some surplus Lancasters in the UK, bringing them back to NZ with the idea of using them for topdressing the hill country. NOW that would have been a sight to behold!
