NZ visit by a Lancaster, 1943.

[nuuumannn]

Interesting photos of of A66-1, one of two Lancasters that received RAAF serial numbers, the other was W4783, G-George, which became A66-2 and is now on display in the Australian War Memorial, Canberra. The reason why these aircraft went to Australia was because that country had discussed building a heavy bomber under licence and the Avro Manchester was considered at one stage, but this was dropped in favour of the Lancaster - the reason why Q-Queenie went to Australia was to serve as a pattern aircraft.

In 1943 Lawrie Wackett of CAC went on a fact finding mission overseas and recommended the Lancaster in his report on his return, but proposed powering it with four P&W 2800 Double Wasp radials fitted with turbo-superchargers to improve the aircraft's medium altitude performance. Following Wackett's report, an order for 346 Lancasters was placed, with deliveries of the first examples in September 1945.

It's interesting that Q-Queenie's armament was removed on her trip to NZ; it arrived in Australia fully armed, as did G-George in 1944. Later, not sure when exactly the aircraft had its European theatre camouflage removed and was left unpainted except for Pacific theatre roundels in all the usual locations and it was rearmed as well.

[Dave Homewood]

Were any of those Lancasters actually built or partially built in Australia?

Harry Rolfe (father of ex-NZ Warbirds pilot Bill Rolfe) was Director of Aircraft Production in Australia during WWII, with a staff of 25,000 under him. In 1947 Harry moved back to his previous home of New Zealand and started Aircraft Supplies Ltd. Bill said the last big job Harry had before moving back to New Zealand was setting up production of the Avro Lincolns there.

[davidd]

Dave H, as hinted at previously, only Lincolns were manufactured in Australia. At the RNZAF Museum @ Wigram in the map room are located quite a few manufacturing drawings of an aircraft called the Lancaster IV or V from memory. Both these "Lancasters" later had their designations changed to Lincoln, presumably because with all the increases in dimensions and weights they no longer looked very much like a Lancaster, and their performance was radically revised too. And exactly why did such drawings ended up at Wigram? I don't think anybody really knows for certain now, but I recall that they originated with Canterbury University, so my guess would be that that body requested (perhaps in 1950s through British universities?) some engineering drawings for a relatively modern, large British aircraft, and that is what arrived.

David D

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks, I did not think the Lancaster was ever built in Aussie but that is a long time between the contract and the supposed roll out date and I wondered if any had been at least started. I guess some of the set up in the factory for building Lancs would have been adapted easily for Lincolns.

[tbf2504]

David, if you can recall there was a plan to eventually re-equip 75 Squadron in the UK with Lincolns if the war against Japan had carried on, noting they were to fly the updated version of the Lancaster
at the very end of the war

[tbf2504]

further to my last:

During 1945, the RAF received its first Lincoln, which was delivered to No. 57 Squadron based at RAF East Kirkby, Lincolnshire. In August 1945, No. 75 (New Zealand) Squadron began to re-equip with the Lincoln at RAF Spilsby, Lincolnshire. However, No. 75 (NZ) Sqn had received just three aircraft prior to VJ Day, and was disbanded quickly thereafter.[6]

[nuuumannn]

Jan 18, 2022 17:56:26 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Thanks, I did not think the Lancaster was ever built in Aussie but that is a long time between the contract and the supposed roll out date and I wondered if any had been at least started. I guess some of the set up in the factory for building Lancs would have been adapted easily for Lincolns.

Yup, the Lincoln was the Lancaster Mk.IV essentially, so there is a lot of DNA in common, just like the Lancaster was the Manchester Mk.III. Handley Page built the Halifax Mk.IV to be powered by 60 Series Merlins to go into production as the main Halifax variant, with the Mk.III powered by Hercules engines as an interim until Mk.IV production was undertaken in strength, but that didn't eventuate as the Lincoln's HP equivalent was just not as much of an increase in performance over existing types, meaning the Halifax III was the most produced variant. Lanc IV development began to slow as the war wore on toward 1945, understandably and had pressure been applied, the Lincoln could have entered service sooner than it did; the first three went to 57 Sqn at RAF East Kirkby a couple of days before the Hiroshima bomb was dropped.

[pjw4118]

Regarding Lancaster/ Lincoln marks , it seems a British habit to give new marks to upgraded airframes until they have little resemblance to the original then its renamed as seen in Spitfire? Spiteful , Typhoon/ Tempest , Mosquito/ Hornet , Vampire / Venom etc .
. The Australia Lincolns were further modified with extended noses . Regarding Lancaster armament , the machine guns lift out of their mounts quite easily and were routinely taken back to the armourers shop after ops for cleaning , servicing etc, so photos of RAF bombers 'Unarmed" are quite common and not unusual.

[nuuumannn]

Jan 25, 2022 15:12:32 GMT 12 pjw4118 said:

Regarding Lancaster/ Lincoln marks , it seems a British habit to give new marks to upgraded airframes until they have little resemblance to the original then its renamed as seen in Spitfire? Spiteful , Typhoon/ Tempest , Mosquito/ Hornet , Vampire / Venom etc .
. The Australia Lincolns were further modified with extended noses . Regarding Lancaster armament , the machine guns lift out of their mounts quite easily and were routinely taken back to the armourers shop after ops for cleaning , servicing etc, so photos of RAF bombers 'Unarmed" are quite common and not unusual.

It certainly makes sense to rename aircraft of the same family if they incorporate major changes to the basic design and it seems that new wings and new engines require a name change, particularly from the following examples you list... The Manchester/Lancaster/Lincoln are obvious in that they all feature different wings and different engines or different types of the same engine, although renaming the Manchester Mk.III was as much to give it a new name owing to the poor reputation the Manchester suffered. By the time the Spiteful came along, the Spitfire was due a name change, previously the name Valiant had been considered for the Spit Mk.23, so there had been plans to rename the type because of the vast amount of changes made to it. Typhoon and Tempest, easily done since the Tempest was initially powered by different engines and incorporated a new wing. The Tempest II powered by the Centaurus was supposed to enter service before the Sabre powered Tempest V, but the Centaurus was delayed. The Mosquito and Hornet bear little in common bar their heritage and are entirely different types, the latter not derived from the former. The Venom warrants a rename from Vampire because of a more powerful engine, new wing and better performance.

As for the guns being removed, yes indeed, although I suspect for the Tasman crossing flight the armament was removed to same weight.