Hunga Tonga Volcano Eruption

[johnnyfalcon]

I'm sure I speak for many here, that our thoughts are with all those affected directly or indirectly by this significant disaster.

Considering that we have RNZN vessels and RNZAF aircraft attending in relief and observation roles, I'm curious about the effect of the sulphur dioxide and volcanic ash contaminated atmosphere on engines, airframes and other hardware.

Reports indicate that no aircraft could land at the airport due to blanketing of ash. Health warnings have been issued regarding water collected off roofs and unwashed vegetables, because of these threats.

At least one P-3 has been up there to report on damage. How are the crews managing these threats? Usually there are 'no fly' zones after a volcanic eruption because of the significant risk to aircraft systems. What measures can be taken to protect the aircraft that are actually operating in this harsh environment? Are maintenance checks increased in regularity? Has anyone here had to deal with this before?

[harrysone]

sigh...we need the old Sunderlands back, at least the old R-1830s would not be ingesting the ash

[tbf2504]

I would suspect that the maintenance regime would be similar to when the C130s operated in the desert during the Gulf War. increased surveillance of critical systems and frequent washdowns

[retiredav8r]

It doesn't matter what aircraft or powerplant you are using, it would only be a fool that would fly into volcanic ash. When the Malaysian volcano erupted several years ago an airline accidently flew through the ash, the engines were choked and quit, the exterior of the aircraft was sandblasted. The crew managed to restart the powerplants and made an emergency landing because the couldn't see out the windows. Most modern aircraft have particle separators but even these would not be able to compete with volcanic ash. You just don't fly into it.

[davidd]

Err, I think that was over Indonesia, a British Airways 747, very famous incident. Agree with the rest though.

[retiredav8r]

Jan 19, 2022 10:22:13 GMT 12 davidd said:

Err, I think that was over Indonesia, a British Airways 747, very famous incident. Agree with the rest though.

Well in the same area of the world. Could have been completely wrong and said Antarctica

[Mustang51]

There is obviously a line drawn between the desire to provide all the assistance possible and placing those providing the assistance in harm's way. Having that runway cleared of the ash is a priority and I am betting that all efforts are being made to ensure that happens at the very earliest time. You cannot clear ash in the air and that is down to the man/woman upstairs to change the prevailing winds. Every first responder nation must be walking on razor blades waiting for clearance. Shipping may be the first avenue if the ash does not clear.

[retiredav8r]

According to RNZAF recon flight, there was a crew physically sweeping the runway clear of ash. Now that is community spirit.

[McFly]

Here hold my beer...

[retiredav8r]

I'll drink it, that's sand not volcanic ash. BIG difference, however the particle separators will need a good cleaning.

[Mustang51]

Ops in the Sand Pit did involve dust ingestion but as retiredav8r says....that's not volcanic ash

[johnnyfalcon]

I agree regarding the balance of meeting the desperate need for outside assistance with the need for protecting 'man' and machine. (not that there's much of our C-130s' and P-3s' life left to protect) Perhaps it's a good thing the P-3 and C-130 replacements haven't arrived yet... Nonetheless, as inferred above, there must be eggshells everywhere.

On a separate note, doesn't this underscore the fragility of our responders' equipment? (in terms of airframe units) How many C-130-Js are we getting? How many volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, cyclones does it take to neutralise their effectiveness?

[tbf2504]

Is not only clearing the runway, but a big section each side to avoid propwash stirring the ash, and the parking areas as well. Has there been any update on the ash particles still being carried in the
air from the volcano. That will determine along with the other measures how safe it will be to operate aircraft anywhere near Tonga

[ErrolC]

Jan 19, 2022 15:13:47 GMT 12 tbf2504 said:

Is not only clearing the runway, but a big section each side to avoid propwash stirring the ash, and the parking areas as well. Has there been any update on the ash particles still being carried in the
air from the volcano. That will determine along with the other measures how safe it will be to operate aircraft anywhere near Tonga

There are no current warnings from VACC Wellington, so presumably any risk comes from stirring up whatever is on the ground

[johnnyfalcon]

Jan 19, 2022 16:07:17 GMT 12 ErrolC said:

Jan 19, 2022 15:13:47 GMT 12 tbf2504 said:

Is not only clearing the runway, but a big section each side to avoid propwash stirring the ash, and the parking areas as well. Has there been any update on the ash particles still being carried in the
air from the volcano. That will determine along with the other measures how safe it will be to operate aircraft anywhere near Tonga

There are no current warnings from VACC Wellington, so presumably any risk comes from stirring up whatever is on the ground

To what information would VACC have access? This is a volcanic event of global significance, how could it not be spewing ash (like Pinatubo et al), visible or otherwise, and not have the same ramifications?

When Ruapehu last erupted all sorts of changes were made to air routes and no-fly zones promulgated for extended periods. I can't see how what our first-responders are flying/sailing into is not a significant risk.

[McFly]

Meanwhile the Ecuadorian Air Force just get a few brooms out and voilà...!

"Ecuadoran Air Force personnel sweep volcanic ash off a military plane parked in the Mariscal Sucre airport October 6 1999, the day after the debris from an explosion in the crater of the Guagua Pichincha volcano blanketed the city. Thousands of tons of ash fell on the city from a cloud measuring 70 kilometers wide that was thrown up 20 kilometers high by the volcano, located just 12 kilometers from the center of Quito."

[Mustang51]

Yes to Ecuador but those machines are already on the ground. When I said clearing the 'runway' I meant the entire complex, runways, taxiways, areas adjacent and especially the hardstands. I have not heard what our P.8 found (too much bloody fall-out news from Novaxx Jockitch) but I am assuming the RAAF is planning (like the RNZAF) to get boots on the ground asap when safe to do so. HMAS Adelaide already steamed to Brisbane to load up with equipment, telecoms people and gear, food, water, masks and whatever needed as revealed by the P8

[johnnyfalcon]

Can the electronic suite in a P-8 or P-3K-2 detect volcanic ash cloud? I assume the weather radar cannot

[scrooge]

Apparently they're trying to minimise 'boots-on-the-ground' due COVID risk. However they're also discussing evacuating the smaller outer islands that have been flattened, so there will be some contact if that happens.

[oj]

Covid risk? Get off the grass. Covid rules do not apply in emergencies.
Read the rules ...