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Post by Antonio on Jan 22, 2022 18:20:35 GMT 12
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Post by davidd on Jan 22, 2022 19:36:36 GMT 12
Think these pictures have been posted on this sit before, perhaps 2 or 3 years ago.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 22, 2022 20:22:20 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 22, 2022 20:36:11 GMT 12
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Post by phil on Jan 23, 2022 11:26:52 GMT 12
Any detail on why this was happening? The linked thread does say where, but still no info on why. Did it land in a Field or something? Doesn't look to be any damage to the underside.
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Post by davidd on Jan 23, 2022 11:37:17 GMT 12
Note this was in the era of "ski-caps" and 14 Squadron markings on the tail booms. Also missing canopy is rather unusual (no protection of interior from rain for instance, but I guess they looked at weather forecast and took a chance). Also showing some ingenuity in clearing the low bridge concrete works. As I cannot locate my notes on individual Vampires at this stage, unable to provide the desired information of exact circumstances as depicted.
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Post by camtech on Jan 23, 2022 11:51:58 GMT 12
Some research found the answer, Thanks to Gary Danvers Flickr page. The caption reads:
1960 RNZAF DH Vampire NZ5776 being eased across a bridge during its transfer by road from Whenuapai to Hobsonville to be barged to Auckland for a display on the Farmers carpark roof, 7 Sep 1960. This bridge was on Brigham Creek Road near the Kauri Road turn off behind the Land Rover. The tail of the aircraft is pointed toward Whenuapai.
From Hobsonville jetty the Vampire was barged to Auckland City and lifted by crane onto the Farmers carpark roof for a display.
Photo: NZ Herald 8 Sep 1960
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 23, 2022 14:59:24 GMT 12
I wonder why they did not just land it at Hobby? Could they not land on a grass runway?
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Post by baz62 on Jan 23, 2022 15:50:37 GMT 12
I wonder why they did not just land it at Hobby? Could they not land on a grass runway? Perhaps they chose a Vampire that wasn't currently airworthy. Since there may have been opportunities for things to go wrong (since they were sticking an aeroplane on a roof)perhaps they thought using a servicable aircraft was a bad idea. Choose one that was due for a major and then if it gets damaged it could be repaired during the overhaul(as long as any damage wasn't "terminal" for the aircraft).
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Post by davidd on Jan 24, 2022 10:38:26 GMT 12
Still doesn't explain why no canopy. But then maybe it does. Reading the subsequent narrative (above) brings up the possibility of damage being suffered during a rather hazardous two-way journey to Auckland. It could have been the thought that the canopy (fairly expensive) was considered to be in danger of suffering damage during this trip if mounted on the aircraft, so could have been carried in greater safety by another road vehicle. Regarding the landing of Vampires at Hobsonville, so far as I know, this was considered to be a rather hazardous practice, due to the grass surface, short runways and other considerations. It was mentioned when the earliest RNZAF Vampires (FB 52s) were being assembled at Hobsonville in 1951, that they would be test flown by a very experienced Vampire pilot (on loan from the De Havilland Aircraft Company of Australia, I think his name was Walker, he was their Chief Test Pilot so far as I can recall) and that the aircraft would be ferried to Whenuapai directly after taking off, due to the airfield considerations.
Interestingly, some time before the first RNZAF TBF Avengers were due to arrive in Auckland aboard ship in late 1943, there was much worry at Hobsonville that they would have to greatly improve the airfield, runway and taxiways as well as many hardstandings as these modern naval aircraft had much higher tyre pressures than any existing types in RNZAF, which seemed to cause great worry for the Works officers, etc., and these improvements were put in hand. I don't really know whether these misgivings were fully justified or not, as these aircraft would not be operated from Hobsonville at anything like maximum operational weights, and also not certain if these misgivings led to strengthening the runaways, etc., at Gisborne. In case you were wondering, the Avengers tyre pressures were predicated on operating off aircraft carrier decks as much as land aerodromes, as were our Corsairs, whereas the B-34 Venturas assembled at Hobsonville in 1943 had larger, but lower pressure tyres, despite their much greater weights.
I can also think of our (almost retired) P-3 Orions which were not permitted to land on the runway at Wigram because of weight of aircraft as well as design of tyres. However for one of the last flying displays held at Wigram, when it was hoped to get at least one of every serving type in the service on ground display, it was arranged that one Orion would be equipped with lower pressure tyres (or just bigger ones?), and it duly arrived and spent much of the day on the ground. Of course the Wigram runway was installed for safer operation of our Friendship "fleet" in the early 1980s, when the runway (originally a wide taxi-strip, laid down, I think as early as 1944) was resurveyed and realigned to be more in tune with known prevailing wind directions. Possibly a slight amount of thread shift involved here, just got carried away! Others can supply greater detail of the Orion's "big soft feet" (which may not be an entirely accurate description).
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Post by McFly on Jan 24, 2022 11:05:40 GMT 12
Vampire at Hobsonville... "Side view of Vampire NZ5762 in front of a hangar with Harvards and a fire tender in the background. Believed to be at Royal New Zealand Air Force Station Hobsonville. MUS070168"
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Post by davidd on Jan 24, 2022 12:39:47 GMT 12
Could well be a camouflaged one too, note serial number on silver section of tail boom.
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nickoc
Leading Aircraftman
Keep your face always toward the sunshine—and shadows will fall behind you — Walt Whitman
Posts: 8
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Post by nickoc on Mar 19, 2022 9:38:34 GMT 12
Regarding davidd's reference to Blackjack Walker from DHA at Bankstown, NSW, doing the test flying of the newly assembled Mk.52s. This must have been a very busy time for him as newly built Mk.30s were being delivered then. I am aware of one other company pilot, Senja Robey, but only that she was employed in that era. I have copies of the monthly reports - will see what I can find. One thing I do remember from those reports was that for some time the Vampires flew in and out of Bankstown with only a grass strip. The aerodrome has always had a problem of flooding so during wet periods either deliveries would stop, or if there was a lucky break, test flying would then move to another airfield (Schofields, I think). Eventually DHA managed to impress upon the govt to put in a 'modern' strip.
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Post by davidd on Mar 19, 2022 16:49:38 GMT 12
Interesting stuff there nickoc! And is that other DHA pilot really a woman test pilot? That would have to be a first in the Southern hemisphere in the early 1950s! What other aircraft were DHA building (or assembling) at that time? Chipmunks and Beavers from Canada, Doves from UK?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 19, 2022 17:02:46 GMT 12
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Post by davidd on Mar 19, 2022 18:26:33 GMT 12
Well, that sorts that one out then, I was guessing she may have been of Indian origin by first name, but obviously way off beam. Also does not appear that she was a test pilot as such, as she must have been pretty young in the early 1950s, and no mention of this in the obit.
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Post by Mustang51 on Mar 19, 2022 21:45:49 GMT 12
Nice shot exists of a Tiger Moth wrapped around the wing of a Vampire after a slight contretemps
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nickoc
Leading Aircraftman
Keep your face always toward the sunshine—and shadows will fall behind you — Walt Whitman
Posts: 8
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Post by nickoc on Apr 28, 2022 19:28:11 GMT 12
Well, that sorts that one out then, I was guessing she may have been of Indian origin by first name, but obviously way off beam. Also does not appear that she was a test pilot as such, as she must have been pretty young in the early 1950s, and no mention of this in the obit. There are lots of unknowns in there, re Senja being a company pilot; trying to remember what I was told - I think the wording was that she was a pilot at De Havilland along with Black Jack Walker. There are different sorts of test flying too; maintenance test flights are a different matter to experimental. The company was overhauling several different types at the time - DH biplanes, Airspeed Oxfords, Mosquitos (retired from RAAF in August 1954) and Vampires. In production were the Vampires and the Drover. I'm sure a young pilot short of a commercial license could conduct maintenance test flights on Tiger Moths and fly with the senior pilot(s) on larger more sophisticated types, learning more and contributing in recording. I met Senja briefly in 2013 or 2014 at a conference and she was extremely lively and was the sort of character who would get her self into a lot of jobs that less forward people wouldn't think of trying! I have had a look through the monthly reports for 1951 and there is no mention of anything in relation to test pilots themselves, but lots of references to test flying being held up by the weather and the lack of a 'permanent' strip. The improved strip - gravel - was approved in that year, but by autumn of 1952 still had not been completed. Reading the reports, it does seem like it was a busy time, and I doubt the work load could have been handled by a single suitably senior test pilot. Walker did publish his autobiography... and this makes me wonder why it wasn't already on my list of books to read! This may illuminate. There may still be one or two of the older De Havilland employees about who would know who was test-flying in the company at the time. Anyway, I feel like this is getting a bit removed from answering all of the questions about the photos of an event in 1960!
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