Defence Force wants to move away from 'big bang' upgrades

[Dave Homewood]

Defence Force wants to move away from 'big bang' upgrades of its aircraft
Thomas Manch
17:53, Jun 30 2022

The Defence Force says it wants to move away from “big bang” improvements of its aircraft, and instead join the United States Navy in two-yearly upgrades.

High-ranking defence officials fronted the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade select committee on Thursday to answers MPs questions on billion-dollar acquisitions of aircraft and other defence assets.

The Defence Force also provided reassurances its Boeing 757 were operating safely, reassurances echoed by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, after it was reported the planes recorded thousands of faults and six safety incidents since late-2017.

The Defence Force has in the past year faced an “insidious” loss of capability, with aircraft grounded and ships mothballed due to maintenance requirements and insufficient staff.

The acquisition of a Southern Ocean Patrol vessel was deferred earlier this year, to concentrate resources on the arrival of new P8 Poseidon and C130J Hercules aircraft.

Ministry of Defence deputy secretary Mike Yardley​ said the defence agencies wanted to move away from “big leaps” in the capabilities of its major defence assets, and instead continually upgrade its incoming aircraft.

"The way we did defence capability in the past was we will buy something, we wait for it to deteriorate to a sad state ... and then we'll have this big leap. We'll spend a lot of money, big leap and try and get up again, and then it wastes away.”


NZDF
One of the Defence Force’s 50-year-old C130 Hercules aircraft, in Europe to assist with the movement of military aid to Ukraine.


To maintain the capability of the Poseidon aircraft, the Ministry of Defence wanted to “be part of the United States Navy system of their continual upgrades”.

"They have a path of every two years they are looking to do a hardware upgrade of that aircraft. A portion, a one component part, but every two years they're doing it. Every second year as well, in the interim, they're doing a software upgrade to the system.

“We are wanting to go away from the big-bang side of upgrading our capabilities and look to have a continuous path going into the future to maintain that capability.”

Yardley said the Ministry of Defence sought to defer the acquisition of a Southern Ocean Patrol Vessel, agreed to by Defence Minister Peeni Henare, because more people were needed to work on existing acquisition projects.


STUFF
A Navy offshore patrol vessel in the Southern Ocean.

Air Vice-Marshal Tony Davies, the vice chief of defence, said the Defence Force was “very stretched” to deliver the incoming projects.

He said there was a “very, very high safety bar” when it came to flying the Boeing 757 aircraft, which transport the prime minister on overseas trips.

“If ever we're in doubt, we don't take any shortcuts and fly in a compromised safety position.”

Details of the 757s mechanical faults and maintenance costs, obtained by ACT Party defence spokesperson Dr James McDowall​, show the two aircraft have since October 2017 had a combined total of 1561 mechanical faults occur when the planes were not in planned maintenance.

During maintenance, a total 2733 faults were recorded as occurring.


NZDF/SUPPLIED
A Royal New Zealand Air Force Boeing 757.

There had also been six safety incidents requiring the aircraft to divert or abort their task.

“I did fly those aircraft for four years when we first got them, and we were having faults then. It's just common for any aircraft of that size and complexity," Davies said.

He said when Ardern flew in a 757 to Singapore and Japan earlier this year, there were no faults recorded.

Davies said a prior Defence Force study of how long the 757s could stay in operation estimated they would need to be replaced in 2028. However, the Covid-19 pandemic and grounding of aircraft across the world had exacerbated the difficulty in obtaining parts of the 757s, as freight companies stopped using the planes.

“We'll try and get these things out to the promised 2028, but we're going to stay start to see more pressures on that as we get closer to that.”

Ardern, asked about the 757s while travelling in Madrid, Spain, said she had “absolute confidence” in the Defence Force.

"Keep in mind that of course the most critical role that that part of our fleet plays is servicing the needs, often, of the region. Being part of our fleet that's able to deliver aid into the region.

“And we continue to be able to do that regardless of maintenance issues.”

Ardern travelled to Europe on a commercial flight.

www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129129518/defence-force-wants-to-move-away-from-big-bang-upgrades-of-its-aircraft

[davidd]

Whether it is cheaper or more efficient to incorporate a series of upgrades in the equipment of a military aircraft type on a regular 2-yearly basis is a moot point, but it is quite a different scenario when compared to some of the major structural upgrades undertaken on RNZAF aircraft over the years. Look how much of the airframes of our Sunderlands (which were very corroded when purchased, being already well-used), Hastings (major work carried out in the UK), Bristol Freighters and Devons, which had to be re-sparred or strengthened in some very expensive programmes, many of them after comparatively few years in service from the mid-1950s onwards. Something similar could be said for our C-130s, P-3s, UH-1s, Andovers, Vampires and Strikemasters, not to forget the Skyhawks and Boeing 727s, although these did last somewhat longer in their original configurations before weaknesses began to reveal themselves. Many of these upgrades were to ensure that they remained structurally airworthy for a useful period into the future, and did not necessarily give them any greater capabilities, although opportunities would have been taken to incorporate more modern components and technologies as they came on the market, which may well have improved their usefulness. Part of the problem was that planners in the 1950s were used to replacing front-line combat aircraft in particular every few years, as their predecessors were declared operationally obsolete (such as the British V-bombers, with their trials and tribulations) although the 70-odd B-52s of the USAF are still hanging in there by the expenditure of billions on them - apparently they are considered all but irreplaceable! It was hoped that transport aircraft might have somewhat longer lives, and that may have been correct for the indestructible DC-3/C-47, but many of the newer transports built from the late 1940s onwards and well into the 1960s (including widespread introduction of pressurisation and other advances in structures), did not always end up quite as expected. Nevertheless many of these aircraft were able to be kept in service for decades providing care and a close watch on any known weak-spots in their structures were monitored regularly, plus much replacement of entire wings, tails or any other parts of the structures which proved to be not up to the job. Cannot see how any of these "big bang" upgrades could have been avoided, it was a case of spending the money, or give up and try and find the money to buy new ones (or second hand at a pinch, and watch what you buy).

[phil]

The information in the article is actually quite specific to the USN P-8A upgrade path (and the future C-130J). The P-8A upgrades tend to be very mission system related, rather than airframe related.

One of the major issues with doing our own very large upgrades every couple of decades is the obsolescence problems and introducing what inevitably becomes an orphan platform with little OEM support.

As we have less an less organic ILM/DLM capability, when purchasing a platform we are now buying into the whole program much more than we used to, and upgrading in line with the major operators and leveraging off the USN (in the case of the P-8A) or OEM as the design organisation ensures we maintain the supportability for the life of type, and not get left behind operating systems for which the manufacturer no longer offers support.

[nighthawknz]

THE DCP 2019 basically says mainly for the P-8A that they will be continuously be upgraded and kept upto date every few years instead of the once every 10 years etc...

[snafu]

Jul 3, 2022 8:52:33 GMT 12 nighthawknz said:

THE DCP 2019 basically says mainly for the P-8A that they will be continuously be upgraded and kept upto date every few years instead of the once every 10 years etc...

With such a small fleet I wonder how that affects availability.


Not saying its a bad thing to do staying in lock-step with the USN RAAF just feel there is a need for atleast a minimum 2 extra aircraft . the RAAF saw this when they only had 4 C17 when it comes time for deep maintenance   

[Dave Homewood]

Can they get a loner from Lockheed while one is in the 'shop?

[snafu]

Jul 10, 2022 16:39:59 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Can they get a loner from Lockheed while one is in the 'shop?

yeah most likely dealer the demo model, no need to put anyone in the back as it will be just a mock up