Kittyhawks

[steveb]

I just received this photo of P-40s from the son of a B-17 bombardier and thought it may be of interest. Unfortunately no details of exactly where or exactly when, but 1943-1944 and SOPAC. Photo from the collection of Lt Samuel D. Smith via his son Richard.

[Antonio]

Awesome.
Please thank him for sharing.

Love the different schemes between the -K and -M
(I think I am correct in that).

[davidd]

Well, I would say definitely 1943 (between say July and September, with use of the diagonal stripes dating from about first month mentioned). Location is also somewhat problematic, looks like one of the less well-known strips in forward area, such as Segi or Barakoma, or it could be back at Espiritu Santo where the rear-based aircraft were stationed. The second and third aircraft in the main bunch on left are almost certainly P-40Ks (with disruptive camouflage, but no i/d stripes), other two would be P-40Ms or even N-1s, marked up with "normal" early-style i/d stripes. Roundels are interesting, with some possibly having small red centres, others maybe blue. Unfortunately the background is not recognizable to me (the very light shading of the trees is most unusual), as is very pale colour of the ground generally, latter possibly crushed coral, which was often used for hard surfaces such as taxiways, hardstandings, etc. There are no other useful clues, although the P-40 peeping into view on extreme right has a dark-painted spinner, as does the aircraft third from right/left, which is a bit unusual. Looks like an official shot too.

[Antonio]

Interesting roundel with the US Star visible.
And a toned down out red centre?

[30sqnatc]

The picture just does not look right to me.

[Mustang51]

Trees don't look South Pacific to me but what would I know? I cannot tell the difference between a gum tree and a rose bush...

[saratoga]

There's a palm tree in the right background.

[baz62]

Oct 27, 2022 19:44:14 GMT 12 Antonio said:

Interesting roundel with the US Star visible.
And a toned down out red centre?

Yes the environment was pretty hard on paint, or they were a bit light with paint!

[Mustang51]

As I look out my study window at Chez Pierre there are three palm trees in my neighbour's back yard........

[hbpencil]

Such an interesting photo, thanks for sharing!

I feel like this may have been taken at Santo (or at least not the Solomons) as I'm pretty sure that the P-40 second from the left (with the star showing through the roundel) is an E, the photo looks rather faded so I can't be 100% but it certainly looks like it has no aerial mast and is a short tail, so I assume it's one of those ex-US machines picked up in Tonga. Likewise the lack of stripes on the K next to it also rule out it being in the Solomons?

Out of curiosity, would anyone happen to know if the solid white tails were applied only once the aircraft reached the Solomons? I ask because I think the central P-40 is an N-1*, and sfaik the N-1 arrived in the Solomons just after the adoption of the solid white tail at some point in September '43.

* I have a theory that Curtiss only started to apply the Medium Green splotches around the wing/tail edges at the factory with the N series. I have seen photos of older models in US service with MG splotches but the style is quite different leading me to think those were applied at unit level.

[Dave Homewood]

That is a really interesting photo, thank you for sharing it.

[Dave Homewood]

Oct 28, 2022 21:09:03 GMT 12 hbpencil said:

I ask because I think the central P-40 is an N-1*, and sfaik the N-1 arrived in the Solomons just after the adoption of the solid white tail at some point in September '43.

Yes, as far as I have been able to establish, the first P-40N-1's left New Zealand on the 28th of August, and reached Santo on the 4th of September, and Guadalcanal on the 8th of September.

[planecrazy]

Great picture and enjoying the discussion, almost looks like the second one in is
in the earlier brown/green scheme??? (Yeah I know it's a black and white shot)

Definitely quite a different scheme to the closer one, also those blotches on the
leading and trailing edge are quite a bit larger than say the ones on Gloria Lyons.

I guess there was a fair bit of leeway in how camo was applied.

[noooby]

Oct 27, 2022 15:45:37 GMT 12 davidd said:

Well, I would say definitely 1943 (between say July and September, with use of the diagonal stripes dating from about first month mentioned). Location is also somewhat problematic, looks like one of the less well-known strips in forward area, such as Segi or Barakoma, or it could be back at Espiritu Santo where the rear-based aircraft were stationed. The second and third aircraft in the main bunch on left are almost certainly P-40Ks (with disruptive camouflage, but no i/d stripes), other two would be P-40Ms or even N-1s, marked up with "normal" early-style i/d stripes. Roundels are interesting, with some possibly having small red centres, others maybe blue. Unfortunately the background is not recognizable to me (the very light shading of the trees is most unusual), as is very pale colour of the ground generally, latter possibly crushed coral, which was often used for hard surfaces such as taxiways, hardstandings, etc. There are no other useful clues, although the P-40 peeping into view on extreme right has a dark-painted spinner, as does the aircraft third from right/left, which is a bit unusual. Looks like an official shot too.

First certainly looks like an M, and with very fresh looking white ID stripes too. I can just make out the cooling grates.
Second looks like a K with the disruptive camo. Did any M's have that? Shame we can't see if it has the cooling grates behind the prop! Mind you, it's more of a shame none of the tail numbers are visible. LOL.
The third looks like an E model. It looks to be a short tail and from what I've seen we only had one short tail K, NZ3108, which crashed in June 1943. So unlikely to be a short tail K model.

What do you think, very early July? Maybe even very late June 43?

[davidd]

Thanks for pointing out the "E" in the line-up, don't know how I missed that, not very clear but the leading edge of fin apparently matching up with tailplane front edge would have to be fairly conclusive (although view is a bit fuzzy). Also, the trailing edge paint blotches, which are obvious enough to anybody with even weak eyes, I just forgot to look! So far as we know, the "E's" were in (American manufactured paints) RAF camouflage, and originally wore RAF roundels and serials, although the roundels were quickly overpainted with US star markings (but no side bars) when these aircraft were retained by USAAF and later issued to the 68th Pursuit Squadron. This squadron would have applied their own "code" numbers on tail fin and on radiator cowling. When taken over by the RNZAF's 15 Squadron in late October 1942, these markings were retained pretty well up to the time that the surviving aircraft arrived at Espiritu about April/May 1943. Then RNZAF roundels and serials were substituted, although it is believed the original "code" numbers were retained for some time, and possibly were repainted in white at a later date. As pointed out, our ex-Tonga P-40Es never served north of Espiritu Santo, so it seems highly likely that the photo was taken there (at the Pallikulo airfield, also known as Bomber I.)

Incidentally, I have always been puzzled by use of the term "grate" for the "famous" air filter intakes (with 15 equally-spaced identical holes) located just forward of the exhausts on both sides of nose, something which I have noticed in recent years, although this usage could date from the days of the ancients for all I know. The Curtiss name for these items (source TO No. 01-25C-4) is "Door Assembly", LH and RH variants, which are hinged at the top and cover the (hidden) filter boxes behind, the "door" being otherwise retained in position by 4 Dzus fasteners. I have always colloquially referred to these doors as "grills". "Grates" to my mind were always made of cast iron, and hopefully prevented leaves and more obnoxious rubbish entering the underground pipes, or alternatively they were sharp kitchen instruments used for grating cheese and other foodstuffs. However I may be just a bit too fussy about such minor things as this. Should I shut-up now?