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Post by Antonio on Dec 29, 2023 18:35:02 GMT 12
She is an awe inspiring , absolutely fabulous; It is so hard to put into words, pristine maybe. The restoration staff have done a fantastic job. The engine runs are certainly the icing on the cake.
I also need to pay homage to John Smith and his family that has enabled this treasure, first to exist and then to the family for allowing the transfer to a good home at Omaka.
The day I visited Mapua while on a Falcon’s Roost at Nelson is still fresh in my mind. So many, many treasures. Thanks you John.
Now I guess that am going to have my head bitten off but I need to say my piece regarding the decision to paint her up to represent a 487 Squadron aircraft is not the greatest of decisions. (I had mulled words like travesty and insult).
Yes I am aware this is honour the aircrew who were lost in ‘D’.
However, Ferrymead are restoring HR339, a genuine 487 survivor and the airworthy examples fly the banner for the squadron.
NZ2336 saw genuine service with 75 Squadron. Yes, that service was brief but she was coded and served. The chance to show her in that scheme is lost . Unique in the world it could have been but no, she is now just another example of a wartime RAF finish.
Harsh maybe but, as I say, this is how I feel.
The only other surviving 75 Squadron Mosquito, NZ2308, now heading offshore and I guessing she is bound to be finished in a RAF wartime scheme too? Little chance of her displaying YC-A for any extended period is she was to emerge wearing her markings.
I know there are others who feel the way I do, and others who, of course, don’t.
Who knows, maybe way down the line if/when a repaint is due, justice could be served.
Feel free to throw brick-bats or bouquets my way.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 29, 2023 19:19:16 GMT 12
To counter your argument, there are several factors I'd like to mention...
TE910 wore this camouflage colour scheme from when it was built and while it was in RAF service. It flew to New Zealand still in camouflage, and flew something like 77 hours in camo and only three hours in No. 75 Squadron silver.
No. 487 (NZ) Squadron is one of the most distinguished New Zealand squadrons with an outstanding record, which till this scheme was painted on to it was pretty much forgotten by the NZ public. This colour scheme not only honours our elite pinpoint bomber squadron, but also remembers an ordinary Kiwi crew who have a direct link with the AHC through the great-niece of the pilot who is remembered working there.
There is already a silver-schemed Mosquito on public display in Auckland at MOTAT. The 1950's silver is imho drab and boring, and has very little history attached to in in terms of telling a wider story.
Another factor is that as TE910 had been stored in the shed all those decades it had some rough spots in places, so it was also decided that the camo scheme would hide some of the blemishes in the skin, rather than the silver highlighting all the bumps and divots under the spotlights, like MOTAT's one does. It worked, the paint job is magic, it hides all the sins. Silver would not have done so. Silver would also have been a bitch to keep tidy when running the engines.
As for Ferrymead's one filling the camo gap, based on the project's progress so far, great as it is, I fear it will be many years before we see that finished and ready for display. But the Omaka Mossie is telling the wartime story right now, and MOTAT's one is adequately telling the much lesser postwar story.
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Post by Antonio on Dec 30, 2023 8:05:27 GMT 12
This from an email I received - with permission to publish:
"Yeah I agree Antonio, there needs to be better representation of aircraft that actually served NZ in the country…likewise I was quite peeved that for more than a decade that we had an airworthy Corsair with actual RNZAF provenance flying around with star and bar markings.
Think I mentioned to you before, NZ2336 is only in NZ because it served in NZ, it’s restoration should reflect that and not some “quasi-fake ID” in a wartime scheme in a squadron that it never served in and looking like a giant (although well painted) Airfix kit."
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 30, 2023 8:07:23 GMT 12
Oh dear...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 30, 2023 8:12:40 GMT 12
we had an airworthy Corsair with actual RNZAF provenance flying around with star and bar markings. Provenance that amounted to it being accepted, assembled, and ferried to storage, and sold off as scrap. Nothing more. TE910 is its genuine serial ID, and the camouflage replicates what it genuinely wore in RAF and the bigger part of its RNZAF service. Some people are too anal. He/she probably wants the Wigram Mustang in Indonesian colours and their Beaver back in Fieldair markings... |
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Post by Antonio on Dec 30, 2023 10:08:06 GMT 12
W WOW!!!  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 30, 2023 11:09:25 GMT 12
Sorry if my post offended, Antonio.
I am just sharing some facts and expressing my opinion. You are of course welcome to share your opinion too. I do understand your side of the discussion completely, and agree it would be nice to see more of the postwar, peacetime RNZAF recognised.
But from a museum point of view, and as a historian, I don't think that their story is as important to tell the public as the story of the men of No. 487 (NZ) Squadron and No. 140 Wing, the elite Mosquito crews that took on the tough targets in the heart of Nazi territory and triumphed. We should never let them be forgotten.
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Post by planecrazy on Dec 30, 2023 17:52:47 GMT 12
I did my mini RC Mosi as she was at the end of her service, really liked how, I think it was, the third Mosi restored to fly looked in plain silver, really shows off the beautiful lines.   |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2023 18:10:03 GMT 12
I'm a fan of the silver RNZAF scheme and I was genuinely disappointed when the decision to paint as a 487Sqn aircraft was announced (the fact her original serial is in place is commendable), but it's not my aeroplane or my money. Given this, and how the debate of original scheme vs representative/replica can get so heated I am always extremely hesitant to voice this opinion. I'm not brave enough to have started a thread like this. Another factor is that as TE910 had been stored in the shed all those decades it had some rough spots in places, so it was also decided that the camo scheme would hide some of the blemishes in the skin, rather than the silver highlighting all the bumps and divots under the spotlights, like MOTAT's one does. It worked, the paint job is magic, it hides all the sins. Silver would not have done so. I didn't realise that Dave (or had forgotten reading about it). A very fair point. |
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Post by baz62 on Dec 31, 2023 10:17:36 GMT 12
You all have good points regarding her history but none of them bother me , she's preserved in running condition and that is the only important thing to me. Arguing about paint just has me rolling my eyes. If you weren't part of the owner's decision process why comment? Do you think they are going to read this and go oh no we've upset someone on the internet we better spend money and repaint it??
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Post by steveh on Dec 31, 2023 12:46:16 GMT 12
I can see both sides of the argument here, but the most important point in her repainting, is, as far as I'm aware, that is was the wish of the Smith family to have her painted like she is. I'm not personally bothered but some years back I modelled her in the scheme she still carried the remnants of when I was privileged to visit & sit in her. Still need to replace the codes with the correct size.  DSCF2820 by Steve Hannah, on Flickr |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 31, 2023 14:37:32 GMT 12
You all have good points regarding her history but none of them bother me , she's preserved in running condition and that is the only important thing to me. Absolutely, Baz. If you weren't part of the owner's decision process why comment? As it happens, I was brought into the decision making process by several members of the team who were working on the restoration. I offered some data and some opinion. It seems everyone was of the same mind about the right direction to take the repaint, and the family agreed too. Marty and the guys did a fabulous job on the paint job too. So, end of story. |
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Post by 30sqnatc on Dec 31, 2023 18:14:49 GMT 12
[/quote]Provenance that amounted to it being accepted, assembled, and ferried to storage, and sold off as scrap. Nothing more.
[/quote]
Dave,
Interesting statement. So what is your scorecard of provenance? The immediate postwar restructure and downsizing period are part of the full character and fabric of RNZAF history.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 31, 2023 18:59:55 GMT 12
I have no qualms about its RNZAF history. I was just pointing out that that particular airframe does not have anything near the history that has been talked about in the past by some people. Some have said it served with No. 14 Squadron, it didn't.
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Post by harrysone on Jan 1, 2024 9:51:05 GMT 12
Another factor is that as TE910 had been stored in the shed all those decades it had some rough spots in places, so it was also decided that the camo scheme would hide some of the blemishes in the skin, rather than the silver highlighting all the bumps and divots under the spotlights, like MOTAT's one does. It worked, the paint job is magic, it hides all the sins. Silver would not have done so. I didn't realise that Dave (or had forgotten reading about it). A very fair point. I’m in agreement with you Zac re the silver scheme and how it best captures the history of the aircraft in NZ. With regards to MOTATs aircraft, while painted silver , NZ2305 (also arguably NZ2308) was an Australian T.43 trainer that never wore anything other than RAAF roundels, I’m quoting from memory…however other than initially converting future Mosquito pilots it was quickly placed into storage |
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Post by harrysone on Jan 1, 2024 9:54:07 GMT 12
LoL, and sorry Dave, I actually reckon an Indonesian P-51 would actually be kind of cool to see on the warbirds circuit (especially), it would be a point of difference  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2024 11:06:56 GMT 12
It seems everyone was of the same mind about the right direction to take the repaint, and the family agreed too. Marty and the guys did a fabulous job on the paint job too. That the Smith family's wishes are honoured truly is what matters, and I agree Marty and co (and Dave with your research) did a fantastic job. LoL, and sorry Dave, I actually reckon an Indonesian P-51 would actually be kind of cool to see on the warbirds circuit (especially), it would be a point of difference Agreed, but somewhat out of place on display at Wigram! I'd never dream of suggesting that airframe be changed while resident there, likewise the Beaver, as both are important representations. |
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Post by agile on Jan 1, 2024 18:11:47 GMT 12
With regards to MOTATs aircraft, while painted silver , NZ2305 (also arguably NZ2308) was an Australian T.43 trainer that never wore anything other than RAAF roundels, I’m quoting from memory…however other than initially converting future Mosquito pilots it was quickly placed into storage NZ2308 was a T43 but absolutely wore RNZAF markings along with 75 Squadron fuselage codes. It's probably among the most photographed aircraft in this scheme. |
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jan 1, 2024 20:24:13 GMT 12
Which, I guess, is why NZ2305 wears RAAF roundels and fin flash but RNZAF serial...?
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Post by Deane B on Jan 4, 2024 20:30:04 GMT 12
Another factor in the decision on schemes was the finish. To do her in silver would have meant a lot more more surface preparation. Whereas the water based matt paint we used covered the existing fabric and metal surfaces well and was far easier to apply. Using silver would have been a nightmare. I prefer the camo as I think silver looks very boring.
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