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Post by phil on Sept 12, 2006 19:35:49 GMT 12
I was working in the seat bay at Ohakea at the time, and so was obviously relieved to hear the seat worked as advertised.
Actually it was about the only time it did, since the IG3 had a nasty habit of tearing open the RSSK8A (survival pack that the pilot sits on) and spreading it's contents about the country side at the moment of man-seat seperation. Since this ejection was over water it was lucky that didn't happen!
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Post by phil82 on Sept 12, 2006 20:26:23 GMT 12
Next to the ejectee, there are probably no happier people in the system than those who service the seats when they see them working as advertised. The first to eject fom an A4 was my good friend the late Wg Cdr Fred Kinvig, and the seat is in the musem at Ohakea. The engine stopped at low level downwind for 09, and Fred quite rightly decided it was time to go. He was well-qualified to make the decision having flown the Canberra and in fact was a CO at the time of the B12, and had also done an exchange with the USAF on the Phantom. Fred was presented with the "Reliable Pratt and Whitney" sign from the engine, and the armourers gave him something similar. His ejection, incidentally, was perfect, but the Skyhawk killed a cow in the paddock it landed in, and Fred broke a leg on landing! Lovely guy anyone who recalls him.
I winessed a double ejection from a 64 Sqn Javelin at Tengah when it turned onto finals and the friction locks on the throttles engaged at a critical moment! When you watch aircraft a lot, and you know what they're about, you first reaction when you see a canopy fly off followed by two quick bangs is one of total surprise, as in "they don't do that very often". The Javelin assumed the glide angle of a brick.
The cracker-stackers were on the piss long before the two aircrew turned up with their gifts!
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Post by Barnsey on Sept 12, 2006 23:28:24 GMT 12
How did it feel ejecting?
At the time, it was rapidly apparent that it was the only option available to extricate myself from a very bad situation! '56 had departed controlled flight at approx 4500ft above the sea during hard manoeuvring in a dogfight.
I had initially tried to get control back by going through the departure drills, but now the jet had settled into a steady state flat spin to the right. The rate of rotation was quite high and the jet was descending at approx 20-25000 feet per minute. The final item in the departure checklist is "Out of Control below 10000ft eject".
I then tried to recover from the spin by applying opposite rudder only and confirming the elevator central. This isn't completely the correct spin recovery drill in an A4, as aileron (in-spin aileron for an upright spin) is more effective than rudder due to the aileron's large adverse yaw effect (due large aileron size).
Around this time, the waves and white-caps were looking pretty large, I probably caught a flash of the altimeter rapidly unwinding, and my wingman was verbalising the departure drills over the radio and was finishing with "Out of control below 10000 feet - EJECT".
The Ejection decision had already been made (and now fully confirmed as the right and only decision remaining), and it was very easy to assume the ejection posture, reach down for the handle, and pull!
I remember it seemed like quite a delay as the canopy and then the rear seat departed the aircraft first. There was an almighty bang and kick in pants as I was fired up the rails. My chin touched my chest inspite of trying to hold my head back against the headrest, and I can remember my breath being forced out during the upwards trajectory.
I next remember a loud crack near my head (either the "ear burner" seat separation rocket, or it could have been the ballistic spreader firing to open the parachute). I remember thinking how gentle the parachute opening shock was compared to the rocket ride just previous.
The biggest thing now was how quiet it was. There was just a little wind noise as I descended under the chute. Just seconds before, I had been sitting in a jet trying to fly my best BFM - with both radios going flat-chat, then recover from an unexpected departure - there were all sorts of different airflow noises thanks to the high yaw rate, and then flung out at a great rate thanks to the seat. But now it seemed to be so surreal and peaceful....!
I looked down to the right and could see the canopy and rear seat falling away, and then down to the left I could see '56 continue through about another half turn and then pancake into the water. It made a pretty huge splash.
From the time I spent in the chute, I ejected at about 1200 feet. From that altitude there was no chance that the aircraft could have recovered from the spin and the ensuing dive safely.
Despite the rather lengthy blurb above, I still get cut up talking about the whole experience. It's certainly not most auspicious tale to tell, but I'm happy to answer any other questions. Sorry Anthony for continuing the thread diversion. If people want, I'll start another one if there's other questions.
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Post by corsair67 on Sept 13, 2006 10:08:31 GMT 12
Barnsey, after reading about your experience of having to eject from NZ6256 I can fully understand why you still get cut up about it. Things really do happen very quickly in those kind of situations, and the fact that you ejected at approx 1200 feet really drives that home. I bet the first beer you had once you were back on dry land went down very easily!
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Post by smithy on Sept 13, 2006 10:13:36 GMT 12
Fantastic read Barnsey. Thanks for that, that's one hell of an adrenaline buzz, both good and bad! I think you sure deserved that bottle of gin at debrief Tim.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Sept 13, 2006 12:14:43 GMT 12
Yeah, thanks for sharing your experience Barnsey!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 13, 2006 16:17:27 GMT 12
Wow, thank you Barnsey for sharing that amazing experience with us.
As I was S&S and worked both in the liferaft section at Ohakea and sometimes helped out in the Parachute Bay there (as well as both sections on other bases), it is really good to read such a first hand account like this and hear about the gear we worked on day in, day out actually being put into action and saving a life. And written so vividly too, it must be one of the heaviest imprinted memories you'll have I guess, yet all over in a few seconds. Thanks again for telling us about it. It's greatly appreciated.
I'd be keen to hear, if you don't mind telling some more, about the splashdown and how after hitting the water was it easy after all that stress to get into the single seat raft? I used top teach dinghy drills and also went through the ejection drill machine at the Ohakea pool during my S&S training where it simulated the touchdown after ejection. At that time I and all the other trainees were thinking there was so much to remember - relasing the mask, cutting away the chute so it doesn't drag you under, etc - surely under stress it would be one big blur and you'd forget your training. Was it like this? Or was it more like time standing still and everything came back to you from your training in the right sequence?
Colin, I recall seeing a photo of Fred Kinvig just after landing from his ejection. It was displayed in the Ohakea Museum in 1993 when it opened to the public so may still be there. His leg was pointing backwards to where the knee joint should point from memory. The caption stated the photographer (an RNZAF Photog) happened to be first on the scene and his first instinct was 'record this on film'then help the guy. He was commended for doing so apparently. Seems quite funny really, imagine the poor bloke in agony seeing a rescuer running over and then stopping to take snaps!
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Post by phil82 on Sept 13, 2006 16:34:45 GMT 12
Yes, the photo is still there. Fred was a super, super guy, he really was, and he also jacked up a backseat in a Skyhawk for me when he was OC Ops at Ohakea, the job he was doing when he had his crash! We spent hours in the Mess talking about aircraft.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Sept 13, 2006 19:49:05 GMT 12
Thanks for sharing your story Barnsey, it makes sobering reading - just glad you got out OK and everything worked as advertised. That sure was a rough month for 2 Sqn and the A-4 fraternity. If you don't mind, I too would like to hear about the water entry, getting into the liferaft, etc and rescue.
Did you get to keep any of the safety equipment for a souvineer? Cheers Don.
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Post by agalbraith on Sept 13, 2006 22:40:44 GMT 12
Man what a gripping read Barnsey, '56' is the aircraft I am doing and I for one am wrapped you relayed your experience to us. Just glad you are still around to tell the story, those guys who maintain those birds are worth their weight in gold.
Hey mate, no need to worry about changing the thread, its all been worth it!
Cheers
Anthony
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Post by smithy on Sept 13, 2006 23:37:32 GMT 12
I'm with Don on wanting to hear more about all this and I'm sure others do as well. Might be worth whacking up a new thread for it.
And Anthony let's see some more pics of how this work of art of yours is coming along!
Tim.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Sept 17, 2006 17:27:02 GMT 12
My chin touched my chest inspite of trying to hold my head back against the headrest, and I can remember my breath being forced out during the upwards trajectory. I have recently been sent this amazing still from an old movie camera which emphasises Barnsey's point above about his head being forced down during the ejection. The photo is RAN Official via ex RAN A-4 pilot Phil Thompson . 23 May 1979; Lcdr Kevin Finan USN (exchange pilot); A-4G side number 888; N13-154909; arrestor wire broke during landing on HMAS Melbourne. Note the position of the pilot's head and the flame from the seat ROCAT.
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Post by phil on Sept 17, 2006 18:31:28 GMT 12
Ouch....
Could always have used the face screen firing handle!
Nasty old seats at the best of times though.
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Post by smithy on Sept 17, 2006 19:48:08 GMT 12
Yeah, that looks painful. Wouldn't be feeling like playing any golf for a few days after that!
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Post by FlyNavy on Sept 21, 2006 17:00:38 GMT 12
Wow, thank you Barnsey for sharing that amazing experience with us. As I was S&S and worked both in the liferaft section at Ohakea and sometimes helped out in the Parachute Bay there (as well as both sections on other bases), it is really good to read such a first hand account like this and hear about the gear we worked on day in, day out actually being put into action and saving a life. And written so vividly too, it must be one of the heaviest imprinted memories you'll have I guess, yet all over in a few seconds. Thanks again for telling us about it. It's greatly appreciated. I'd be keen to hear, if you don't mind telling some more, about the splashdown and how after hitting the water was it easy after all that stress to get into the single seat raft? I used top teach dinghy drills and also went through the ejection drill machine at the Ohakea pool during my S&S training where it simulated the touchdown after ejection. At that time I and all the other trainees were thinking there was so much to remember - relasing the mask, cutting away the chute so it doesn't drag you under, etc - surely under stress it would be one big blur and you'd forget your training. Was it like this? Or was it more like time standing still and everything came back to you from your training in the right sequence? The pilot of RAN A-4G 888 who ejected so dramatically wrote the following in his report about the accident: "I was… given hook down for landing. At the time my fuel weight was 1,400 lbs. for a gross weight of 12,900 lbs. The approach seemed normal to me in all respects. As I got in close I started to settle so I began adding power as a correction. Touchdown seemed normal with the power already coming on toward military. I thought I had a three or four wire. The initial retardation on the arrest felt normal. After approximately one half to two thirds of the runout I felt the aircraft lurch forward and the decelerating stop. I was still at military power. As I felt the deceleration cease my initial thought was that the hook had either failed or shed the wire and that I might be able to fly the aircraft off. After looking up the deck it became obvious I didn't have flying speed and that I would be going in the water. I initiated ejection with the lower handle. The ejection sequence was normal. I flailed around quite a bit and for awhile thought the chute might not open before water impact. From chute deployment I did not have enough time to deploy my raft prior to water entry. I had just located one Koch fitting and was reaching for the other when I entered the water. I released the one fitting immediately and tried to locate the other. I found the other fitting while still underwater and released it. The chute had dumped and was about twenty feet away. I then removed my oxygen mask which had slid down on my face during the ejection. I was on the surface having no difficulty staying afloat. I then actuated my MK12 waistcoat. It worked normally. When I saw the rescue helicopter approaching I decided to release my seat pan to make helo entry easier. I undid the lap straps and let it fall away with my mask. The helo hovered directly overhead and was most expeditious in getting the sling to me. Due to the bulk of the MK12 I could not get into the sling with it fully inflated. I was having no difficulty staying afloat and feel that I was using the correct entry procedures. I eventually got into the strop by letting some of the air out of the waistcoat. Lift and entry into the helo were well done by the SAR Crew. Comments (added by Lcdr K. Finan) I do not wear flying gloves when operating on the aircraft carrier. I believe that not wearing gloves facilitated my locating the Koch fittings and releasing them and also finding and actuating my oxygen mask fittings. I have a personal form-fit helmet which remained in place throughout despite some violent flailing. My inability to enter the sling with the MK12 fully inflated seems to me to be the most serious difficulty I encountered post ejection. I was suffering no injuries and was in a calm state of mind and I could not enter the sling with the MK12 inflated. I think the size of the sling should be reviewed; the possibility of lowering the sling in the open configuration be considered; and that some form of snap link be adopted which would allow even an injured pilot to attach himself, via the torso harness, to the sling fitting." K.P. FINAN LCDR USN
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Post by FlyNavy on Sept 21, 2006 20:34:04 GMT 12
First pic shows the position of ejection just off the angle as the canopy goes first. Then we see a series from a different perspective. Here is a still frame showing wire actually paying out after breaking.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Sept 22, 2006 9:22:55 GMT 12
Great series of pictures!
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Post by Barnsey on Sept 23, 2006 23:10:12 GMT 12
Parachute Descent and Logging Liferaft Captaincy
Once I'd got over the whole "Holy crap, WTF has just happened" effect, the parachute descent drills came back to me readily. It really was a case of all those times spent hanging over the Ohakea pool practicing with a blindfold on or one arm strapped to your side, making the real event flow easily. Thanks to the S&S lads!
The first part of the descent drills was to check that the parachute canopy had fully inflated and wasn't damaged, rise the visor and then drop the oxygen mask away from your face.
In my case, my visor had partially risen during the ejection sequence despite being locked down prior. I think that they found that if the operating arm was sitting just on the detent, the G forces could unlock the mechanism and allow wind blast to raise the visor.
If you had ejected over a forest, you were supposed to keep the oxy mask on your face prior to entering the trees to give face protection. (You would also keep the survival pack - RSSK8 - attached to your behind to stop giving yourself a pine tree enema!). In my case being over water, I unhooked the mask from both clips and pulled it off completely and discarded it.
From there, I activated the emergency beacon located on the survival jacket and then deployed the life raft and survival pack. Unlike previous ejections, I didn't have any problems deploying the pack.
There wasn't a whole bunch more time prior to me hitting the water. I didn't contemplate using the 6(?) line cut to get steering ability on the chute, and I didn't make an attempt to try and steer the chute into wind prior to splashing down. In fact, I remember thinking how glad I was that I was going into the water and not attempting to come down on the land, as I had a reasonable ground speed thanks to a bit of wind.
As I hit the water, I found the Koch fittings OK (where the parachute risers attach to the torso harness) and the chute was blown clear, and I then inflated my lifejacket. It wasn't too much of a swim to get to the liferaft and clamber in. I then deployed the sea anchor and and then draged the survival pack aboard and switched off the emergency beacon that is in the pack. This was all happed just as we had practiced in the pool or when being flung of the back of a launch during wet drills, without much thought on my behalf.
From there, I took my helmet and gloves off and partially inflated the raft's roof and floor. I then started using my helmet as a bailer to clear the worst of the water from the raft. Once most of it had been cleared, I velcroed up the roof and used the integral bailer to try and get the rest of the water.
Early on I got the beacon out of my jacket and switched it to voice mode and made contact with my wingman who was orbiting overhead. It sure was comforting to talk to Ted and let him know I was OK, and hear that help was on the way.
An aside that came out afterwards was that the new beacon the RNZAF had wasn't good for CSAR ops. The beacon was good from a "civvie" rescue point of view, in that it transmitted on 243 and 416 for satellites, but the only voice mode it had went out on 243 Mhz as well. The downside to this was that you needed to keep the beacon mode going so that your position could be DF'd but this would be blaring away on guard (243), so all the guys holding overhead had switched guard off on their radios so that they could co-ordinate the rescue. This meant that I could not raise them if I had tried as they weren't listening...!! The old SARBE had a discrete frequency (282.8?) that could be selected while it still transmitted on guard for DF. Anyway...
There was a pretty big swell running that day and there were waves and white-caps breaking off the tops. I was getting hit side on a bit and the waves were breaking onto the roof portion and splitting open the velcro, so the raft would fill back up water. This didn't seem right as the sea anchor was supposed to keep the back of the raft towards the swell, and I could see it was at 90 degrees to the raft. I found that the parachute had snagged around the RSSK8 container that I'd left dangling down the side, and was acting as a more effective sea anchor and was holding me side on to the swell. Even once I'd untangled it and had put the RSSK8 container on my lap the raft was still not riding out the swell well and the raft would be hit and open the roof up again and fill up with water. I was doing a lot of bailing! I now found that the sea anchor was rolling itself up into balls when dragging through the water and pretty much useless. More bailing....!
I was in the raft for about 90 minutes, and eventually got the helicopter in sight as it closed from the east. Normally you would pop the smoke end of one of your rescue flares for their wind awareness, but I was surrounded by a bit of AVTUR from the jet so didn't want to start a rather large fire ball to advise my position.
The S-76 came into the hover overhead and the rescue swimmer jumped out and came over to the raft. They lowered a back board and intimated that I should get in it! I wasn't too keen but followed - nearly a bad move due to the weather. The stretcher sits quite low in the water and I was restrained by about 5 straps along it's length. The problem was that the swell meant there was a very real risk that I would get rolled upside down while strapped in. I refused to allow my arms to be strapped in, and kept them outstretched as paddles to help keep myself upright.
From there it was off to the hospital and then the BOI.....
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Post by smithy on Sept 25, 2006 11:27:53 GMT 12
Great stuff Barnsey! I'm really enjoying your recollections.
Thanks,
Tim.
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Post by FlyNavy on Sept 26, 2006 18:09:59 GMT 12
Barnsey. Thanks for putting your experiences on this board. Being an old Navy pilot it is great to know that the equipment pretty much worked as advertised and you had excellent training for your situation from the Safety Equipment personnel. I like your quip about "rubber dinghy captain time". Cool. FLY NAVY. :-) Regards from Phil Thompson.
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