|
Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 9, 2007 11:30:55 GMT 12
I doubt "Paul Keating" and "Her Majesty's" will be in the same sentence Craig. Remember last time they 'got together'?
|
|
|
Post by beagle on Feb 9, 2007 18:30:25 GMT 12
Arn't the POMS looking at flagging the building of the new carriers
|
|
|
Post by Calum on Feb 9, 2007 19:25:10 GMT 12
Not the carriers but the rest of their navy has been decimated. They have about 1/2 the amount of ships they had in 1982. and the are about to lose more.
Their new PM to be isn't that keen to defence. Seen as a bit of an tight wad by the troops in Iraq/ Afghanistan.
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 9, 2007 20:29:44 GMT 12
Why does the Royal Navy need carriers? i thought they retired the FAA Harriers. What's left? Helicopters?
|
|
|
Post by beagle on Feb 9, 2007 20:40:49 GMT 12
According to their web site they use their GR7's and probably GR9's along with Merlins, Chinooks and the last Sea Kings and are pondering getting or modifying their apache longbows to the marinised version. for maritime strike. Would you like to be the sleepy captain who's 1/2 a sleep on the bridge when all of a sudden an apache appears infront of your window.
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 9, 2007 21:43:27 GMT 12
So that's RAF Harriers being used on RN carriers then?
|
|
|
Post by FlyNavy on Feb 9, 2007 23:45:05 GMT 12
The aircrew fly in "Joint Force Harrier" combinations using RAF Harrier GR7/9 aircraft now. The RN Harriers have been retired. www.airforce-technology.com/projects/fa2/____________________________________ "Rumours in August 2006 suggested that in fact 800 & 801 squadrons will share a pool of 12 GR7/9 aircraft - the reason being given as a lack of sufficient RN pilots to operate any more. The FAA has struggled to recruit fast jet pilots since the 1970's; with 800 & 801 squadrons now operating from an RAF base rather than RNAS air station, and the two squadrons expected to be tasked with traditional RAF-type land based deployments at least as much as sea time on a carrier, it seems that it may be difficult for the RN's FAA to attract over the RAF an adequate number of potential fast jet pilots to fly its Harrier's. Joint Force Harrier will eventually have available (active or in storage) some 27 Harrier GR.9's, 30 GR.9A's and 10 T.12's - before attrition or other losses are taken in to account (e.g. one GR.9 crashed in July 2006). In addition to JFH's requirements, several Harrier's will normally be allocated to the units at Boscombe Down for training, trials, testing and experimentation purposes. Airframe numbers appear to have been stretched thin by the MOD in the hope that the GR.9/9A and T.12 will serve for less than a decade, and can thus be hard worked during that time. JFH will continue operating the Harrier until its replaced between about 2014 to 2018 by the UK's new Joint Combat Aircraft (JCA), for which the Lockheed Martin F-35B STOVL JSFs has been provisionally selected for purchase." navy-matters.beedall.com/harrier-gr9.htm__________________________ "Joint Force 2000 initiative, ordered under the Strategic Defence Review. Under this new initiative RAF Harriers and RN Harriers will serve together more frequently at sea. Although this is the first time that the arrangement has been formalised and placed under a designated commander (currently FONA) RAF Harriers have served on the Invincible class aircraft carriers on an ad hoc basis several times before, notably in the Falkland's War, the Gulf War and the actions over the former Yugoslavia. The removal of the Sea Dart system ensures that the Invincible class will always need to be accompanied by a TYPE 42 destroyer for air-defence protection. However whenever an aircraft carrier went to a potentially hostile area of operations previously, she would be under escort. It has now been accepted that the Invincible class is a useful part of the fleet. Indeed, they have arguably regained their place as the capital ships of the fleet. The aircraft carrier will normally be the flagship for the fleet, and as was shown in the Falklands War, the Gulf War and operations in former Yugoslavia, the role of these ships are essential. This has been one of the reasons why the government has decided to replace this class of ships with a true aircraft carrier. This is currently known by the designation CVF but it is known that there will be two vessels, each of approximately 40,000 tonnes. That these vessels are considered is a testament to the Invincible class which has shown there remains a need in the Royal Navy for aircraft carriers." www.gillespie.ndo.co.uk/Navy/Carriers.htm_______________________________ Phil.
|
|
|
Post by FlyNavy on Feb 10, 2007 16:58:13 GMT 12
From www.stuff.co.nz Reuters | Wednesday, 7 February 2007
WASHINGTON: The US Defence Department has told Congress it was proposing to sell Australia 24 Super Hornet fighter jets, made by Boeing, and related services in a deal worth $US3.1 billion (NZ4.55b).
The Pentagon's Defence Security Co-operation Agency said Australia wants to buy the F/A-18E/F aircraft, 48 installed engines and 6 spare engines. It said Australia was also interested in buying the following as part of the deal:
24 AN/APG-79 radar systems
24 AN/USQ-140 Multifunctional Informational Distribution System Low Volume Terminals
30 AN/ALR-67(V)3 Electric Warfare Countermeasures Receiving Sets
145 LAU-127 Guided Missile Launchers
30 AN/PVS-9 night vision goggles
Integration of the AN/ALE-47 Electronic Warfare Countermeasures Systems
12 Joint Mission Planning Systems
AN/ALE-55 Fiber Optic Towed Decoys. "Also included are system integration and testing, software development/integration, test sets and support equipment, spare and repair parts, maintenance and pilot training, software support, publications and technical documents," the agency said.
The Defence Security Co-operation Agency is required to notify Congress of possible foreign military sales.
In addition to Boeing, Defence contractors involved in the possible sale would include Northrop Grumman , Raytheon , BAE Systems , General Electric , Data Link Solutions, and Visions Systems International.
Australia is a partner with the United States and seven other countries in developing the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jet, which made its first test flight in December. ...and we couldn't get 28 F-16s past our "glorious leader" for $750 million. (Obviously no where near as capable as the Super Hornet). Mind you, we were getting cleaned up by 3 Sqn Hornets last night... The PDF report at URL below makes interesting reading regarding the Super Hornet (with a quote): "Tanker Capability - The capability of the F/A-18E/F to conduct a tanker mission offers great flexibility for carrier operations, both by providing a tanker to refuel aircraft en route or returning from their assigned missions and by adding flexibility to recovery operations. Since the F/A-18E/F tanker can match the altitude and speed performance of the carrier’s other strike and attack aircraft, it can keep up with the mission package. This provides great flexibility in planning and executing long-range missions, including the support of inevitable changes to the planning. By serving as a recovery tanker, the F/A-18E/F tanker, positioned near the carrier, can refuel aircraft that return to the carrier in a low fuel state, thereby extending their flight time to allow an orderly recovery of aircraft within the established carrier cycle time for flight operations. Earlier versions of the F/A-18 are not capable of performing this tanker mission." Quote from this report: armed-services.senate.gov/statemnt/2000/000322pc.pdfThe RAAF will benefit greatly from the flexibility afforded by the F18F tanker and the other future uses, including its ordinary role. Phil.
|
|
|
Post by Calum on Feb 10, 2007 21:33:10 GMT 12
So that's RAF Harriers being used on RN carriers then? Kinda. 1 sqns worth of the RAF's GR-7s was transferred to the Navy. So the Joint Harrier Force consists of a mix of RAF and RN Harriers. The RN GR7 Sqns (800 and 801) deploy most of the time to the carriers but the RAF can also operate of them The maintenance personnel are both RN and RAF The British helicopter force is organised on similar lines with rotary wing assets from the Army, RAF and RN coming under 1 command
|
|
|
Post by flyjoe180 on Feb 11, 2007 7:54:51 GMT 12
Interesting article yesterday on the RAAF Wedgetail project in the NZ Herald. www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story.cfm?storyid=000B6FA2-F49E-15CB-AD3D83027AF10174Thin end of the Wedgetail project
Saturday February 10, 2007 By Ben Sandilands The Project Wedgetail Boeing 737s taking shape in a highly secured hangar at the Amberley Air Force base west of Brisbane, Australia, are blandly described as Airborne Early Warning and Control (AWEC) aircraft.
In truth they will become the gate keepers of the slaughter ground that the Australian Defence Force will create in whatever part of the continent is invaded in future hostilities.
Close up these 737s bristle with metal blisters, barbs, and small bubble-shaped devices of uncertain intent, as well as fish-like under fins and the more normal looking radar array on top.
Not so much another example of the world's most commonly flown jet airliner, but a warthog with wings, or something out of a sci-fantasy comic.
But there are a few problems for this extraordinary and mostly top secret US$3 billion ($4.4 billion) programme, as defence industry media were candidly told on being taken into this strangest of assembly lines for 737s for a first public showing.
The Northrop Grumman Multi-role electronically scanned array (Mesa) radar system isn't working as intended, or with the other systems it must integrate with in battle.
The Wedgetails, due for delivery last November, and then delayed until late next year, have just been delayed a further six months for initial deliveries in March 2009.
And while the Australian investment is half a billion for each jet, Boeing has taken the additional development costs into its accounts, with a fresh charge of US$274 million on top of an earlier US$496 million write-off.
The six jets involved come off the airliners' civilian assembly line in Seattle as empty aircraft, are flown to Amberley, pulled apart and securely reassembled with classified systems and weapons.
Airlines get civil 737s for as little as US$25 million each if ordered in bulk, although the list price is much higher.
But as the officials who showed off the partially re-assembled Wedgetails explained, these are not even ordinary early warning jets, never mind airliners.
"The Mesa radar brings 360 degree continuous coverage. This is world beating in its class," says Air Vice-Marshal Chris Deeble.
When it works it will be, and the potential market is huge.
South Korea has also ordered Wedgetails, which were proposed by Boeing as the answer to an Australian need to find and kill everything from enemy warships down to single commando infiltrators in the event of an attack on isolated but strategically vital communities, and the country's mineral and petroleum assets.
The new vice president for Boeing's AWEC project, Maureen Dougherty, who was sent to Australia from running nuclear missile programmes to knock the Wedgetails back into form, says "We would of course like to see this platform ordered by the United States".
But the US like many other potential buyers is waiting to see if the Wedgetails really fly. The Australians have started something that Boeing might not be able to finish, although it insists it will.
A Wedgetail can stay up for days with mid-air refuelling from air force tankers. It will not just continuously scan in near photographic detail everything above, below and beside it, but identify, categorise, track, calculate motion and otherwise measure who or what it finds.
It can lock on to "interesting" objects for examination while the universal scanning process continues, in some cases using long-range vision, hundreds of kilometres away from a heavy exchange of fire.
While it is doing that it can detect the threat of missile or ground fire attacks on itself and carries anti-missile and flak systems which may include multi-directional laser defences.
However the fiercest attack on any Wedgetail came last year when Australia's new defence minister, Brendan Nelson, found the project was in disarray soon after Boeing had assured him it was in excellent shape.
Nelson had taken over the portfolio only to discover that apart from the Wedgetail's radar not working, the expensive Lockheed Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) was so delayed that Australia would have to buy interim Super Hornet fighters to cover the gap between the retirement of its F-111 fighter bombers after 2011 and availability of the super futuristic multi role jet which could be as late as 2018.
And the European Tiger helicopters that are intended to work closely with the Wedgetails in finding and killing enemy personnel are also having teething problems.
Asked if this was really Australia's fault, in that it has a history of imposing highly, if not overly ambitious programmes on defence suppliers at impossibly low prices, Air Vice Marshall Deeble disagreed.
"This is how we punch above our weight in defence," he says. "We push for the very best we can get."
He also says "there is nothing in the laws of physics that says the Mesa radar system can't work".
Or perhaps it might work too well. During the tour one official let slip that testing the full range of capabilities would involve "making sure they aren't pointed at passenger aircraft".
It seems the Wedgetail may have rather sharper claws than defence sources wish to reveal come a time when it is used in anger.
- OBSERVER
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on Feb 13, 2007 18:13:33 GMT 12
From the SMH.
On shopping list: fighter jets with no stealth Tom Allard National Security Editor February 12, 2007.
THE Super Hornet fighter jet - earmarked to be bought by the Federal Government - would be highly vulnerable against rival aircraft and air defence systems being obtained in the region, former air force officers and defence analysts say.
The concerns about the Super Hornet's lack of stealth are fuelling calls for the Federal Government to reconsider its widely expected decision this month to buy 24 of the jets for up to $4 billion.
The retired Air Vice-Marshal Peter Criss, air commander during the East Timor campaign, was scathing in his assessment of the Super Hornet.
"It's an old-generation fighter that can't survive with existing aircraft in the region, let alone what's coming in the future," he said.
Air Vice-Marshal Criss said the biggest problem with the Super Hornet was its large radar reflection, making it easy to detect. He urged the Government to reconsider the F-22 Raptor - more expensive, but also far more capable. "With those two aircraft you have both ends of the spectrum. The F-22 is the stealthiest of all known fighter aircraft, and the Super Hornet sits firmly at the other end of that spectrum with a radar signature that is an embarrassment."
The Super Hornet is easily detectable because its weapons are carried externally.
The Chief of Defence Force, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, once described the F-22 as "the most outstanding fighter plane ever built". Already flying, it has achieved a 100 per cent kill rate in exercises, and no losses. Besides being the stealthiest military aircraft ever built, it can travel at supersonic speeds without afterburners.
Pilots also attribute its extraordinary record in exercises to its ability to travel at such high altitudes that it cannot be touched by enemy fire.
Andrew Davies, an analyst at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, said the Super Hornet was vulnerable against the Russian-built Sukhoi fighter that was increasingly popular in the region.
"If there is a strike target defended with an Su-30, the F-22 will get it for sure, the F-15 Eagle has an even chance while the Super Hornet probably has a less than even chance."
The push by the Minister for Defence, Brendan Nelson, to buy the 24 Super Hornets is well advanced,a nd cabinet's national security committee is due to approve it by the end of the month.
The rushed decision was described by another analyst from the institute, Mark Thomson, as a clear deviation from the Government's own rules for best procurement practice.
"It's like saying you are going to buy a Ford Falcon without seeing what General Motors or Toyota has to offer," Mr Thomson said.
The Super Hornet is being urgently sought as a stop-gap in the case of delays in or the scrapping of the purchase of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.
Defence wants to buy the F-35 - still in its early development phase - to replace its F-111 and F/A-18 Hornet fighters. The F-35, always considered high-risk, has run into substantial difficulties and is likely to involve big cost overruns and delays.
The Herald revealed last week that the new Pentagon budget bill allows for the US Air Force to buy only 48 of the F-35s a year from 2013, rather than the 110 originally foreshadowed. That will substantially increase the price of the aircraft for Australia.
Neil James, the executive director of the Australia Defence Association, said: "The Raptor needs to be reconsidered."
In its journal, Defender, last week the association published a long article by a group of defence and industry figures under the pen name Don Middleton, urging the Government to reconsider the Super Hornet decision.
If the purchase goes ahead and the F-35 program fails to deliver, the result would be "entrenching air inferiority for the first time since this disastrous policy was last enforced in the 1930s", the article said.
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on Mar 6, 2007 15:41:55 GMT 12
I wonder if this media alert has anything to do with Super Hornets?
Department of Defence Media Mail List ------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPA 052/07 Tuesday, 6 March 2007
ANNOUNCEMENT ON AUSTRALIA’S AIR COMBAT CAPABILITY
What: The Minister for Defence, Dr Brendan Nelson, Chief of the Defence Force, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, Secretary of Defence, Mr Nick Warner, and Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Geoff Shepherd, will make an announcement on Australia’s Air Combat Capability.
Where: No 34 Squadron, Richmond Avenue, Defence Establishment Fairbairn, ACT.
When: Media to arrive no later than 13:45 (1:45pm) Tuesday, 6 March 2007
|
|
|
Post by Calum on Mar 6, 2007 16:23:39 GMT 12
CANBERRA March 6 (Reuters) - Australia will buy 24 F-18 Super Hornet fighter jets, made by Boeing Co., and related equipment in a deal worth up to A$4 billion ($3 billion), a government source said on Tuesday. Australia already operates older and less capable F/A-18s and the bigger Super Hornets will fill a gap to be left by the looming retirement of Vietnam-era F-111 strike bombers. Canberra has been in negotiations for the purchase of the F/A-18E/F aircraft, radar systems and countermeasures as an interim combat system before the arrival of up to 100 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters worth more than A$15 billion. ($1=A$1.30)
© Reuters 2007. All Rights Reserved.
Waste of money IMHO
|
|
|
Post by Calum on Mar 6, 2007 16:27:11 GMT 12
$6 Billion to MAINTAIN AUSTRALIA’S REGIONAL AIR SUPERIORITY Australia is assured of maintaining its air combat capability edge with the Government’s decision to acquire 24 F/A-18F Block II Super Hornet multi role aircraft. At a cost of approximately $6 billion over 10 years, the acquisition of the Super Hornet will ensure the transition to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter over the next decade. The acquisition will include 24 aircraft, initial support and upfront training for aircrew and maintenance personnel. The Howard Government has delivered solid economic management and Budget surpluses over a decade. We are now in a position to deliver this for Australia. The acquisition of the Super Hornets will be fully supplemented as part of the 2007/08 Budget process. The JSF is the most suitable aircraft for Australia’s future combat and strike needs. Australia remains fully committed to the JSF. But the Government is not prepared to accept any risk to air combat and strike capability during the transition to the JSF. The F/A-18F Super Hornet is a highly capable, battle proven, multi role aircraft that is currently in service with the US Navy through to 2030. The next generation Block II Super Hornets will provide a more flexible operational capability than currently exists with the F-111. Only last week Aviation Week reported “Supporters of the design say it will give the Block II Boeing built Navy aircraft a fifth-generation capability similar to that of the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The Hornet’s electronic attack capabilities could become even more sophisticated with additional modifications.” – Aviation Week 26 February, 2007 It is anticipated that Australian personnel will begin Super Hornet training in the United States in 2009. The selection of the Super Hornet builds on the Royal Australian Air Force’s deep understanding of the current F/A-18 fleet. The Block II Super Hornet will provide Air Force with the flexibility to assign all air combat crew and technical personnel across a relatively common fleet during the transition to the JSF. The Super Hornet will be based at RAAF Base Amberley. Negotiations for commercial support arrangements will commence immediately. Defence is already engaged with Boeing and the United States Navy to ensure that the maximum potential of Australian Industry Involvement is achieved. Local Industry participation will be a key factor in developing the through life support concepts for the Super Hornets. The Australian Super Hornet program plans to contain local contractor owned and operated intermediate maintenance and training for aircrew and support personnel. Additionally, the supply chain infrastructure, warehousing and operation will be manned locally in support of both Australian and US Navy Super Hornets in the region. The selection of a next generation fighter allows for upskilling of the workforce. The Super Hornet brings a significant growth of capability within the support and supply chain, low observable materials (stealth), advanced sensors and IT. This will ensure that Australian industry is trained, qualified and has access to both USN and then JSF markets as they share common technologies. This in no way diminishes our commitment to the JSF Program subject to final Government approval in 2008. Current planning is for Australia to acquire its first JSF in 2013. There is no gap in Australia’s air combat capability and the Government is taking all necessary steps to ensure a gap does not emerge. Air combat capability is vital to defend the approaches to Australia and enables us to operate air power on deployment overseas. Our air combat forces are a key part of enhancing our land and maritime forces. This was most ably displayed by the combat performance of our F/A-18 squadron in Iraq in 2003. The Australian Government is committed to retaining the leading edge in air combat and the Block II Super Hornet will enable this through the next decade. The F-111 has been a stalwart aircraft at the centre of Australia's strike capability for over three decades. The Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Geoff Shepherd, a pilot with around 2500 hours flying F-111’s, said it is important for Australia to retire the F-111 at a time of our choosing. This ensures that the men and women who operate them are not endangered through the risks of an aging platform. The withdrawal of the F-111 is expected in 2010 with the F/A-18F Super Hornets to be operational that same year. Many generations of Air Force personnel and Defence civilians will be sad to see the F-111 withdrawn from service in 2010. The Government acknowledges the tireless efforts and professionalism of personnel at Amberley who have maintained this vital element of Australia's Defence. The immense experience base from decades of F-111 service will boost the new air combat capability in the coming decade. Our nation is grateful to those who gave Australia this magnificent aircraft, those who have flown and maintained it and who will do so for a further three years. With the C-17 and KC-30B tanker refuelling aircraft also to be based out of Amberley, as well as the Wedgetail AEW&C support centre, the region is well placed to capitalise on these significant aerospace industry involvement opportunities. The Super Hornet provides Australia with the greatest capability enhancement and least risk option to ensure Australia’s capability edge. Broadcast quality vision of the F/A-18 Super Hornet will be sent to television networks at Parliament House. Further information and still imagery is available at www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2007/Mar/20070306/
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on Mar 6, 2007 18:01:18 GMT 12
Yeah, but they'll be great at airshows! ;D I reckon the way the whole F-35 program is going, the RAAF will get a good 10-20 years service out these Super Hornets. Maybe the RNZAF can have them once the RAAF has finished with them?
|
|
|
Post by beagle on Mar 6, 2007 20:01:32 GMT 12
Maybe the RNZAF can have them once the RAAF has finished with them
who's the funny man then.
It;s 2020, the National party has been in power for 3 terms now and with unemployment running at 20%, petrol rationed at $5 per litre, Labour under pressure to replace Helen, she calls on a Mr John Howard, now retired to his 30th storey apartment on the land where Eden Park was, to come out and bring the nation back to prosperity. John is elected and first task is to buy some clapped out Super Hornets in a multi billion dollar deal from Australian President Bindy Irwin
|
|
|
Post by Calum on Mar 6, 2007 21:55:53 GMT 12
ROFL
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on Mar 7, 2007 10:05:53 GMT 12
Bindy Irwin? Nah, she'll be dead by the time 2020 comes around. I can't believe it, but the RAAF brought an F-111 and F/A-18 down to Canberra for the announcement, and I didn't even know they were here!
|
|
|
Post by beagle on Mar 7, 2007 18:07:18 GMT 12
eaten ya reckon
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on Mar 7, 2007 19:03:45 GMT 12
Yes, eaten; and probably by a Dingo! ;D
|
|