Goblin Servicing Palmerston North

[shorty]

Another unit I have heard about but know nothing of, is the unit, based at Milson (now Palmerston North Airport) that serviced (overhauled?) Goblin engines at this site.
Was it a civilian or an Air Force unit?
I am sure one of the SNCO's on 14 sqdn during my time there had been part of it.

Any one Know anything about it? When did it start, when was it shut down and any other info.
There was a test house over the far side at one stage.

[Dave Homewood]

I've never heard of this but it may have been a civil contract like when PAC used to do our Iroqouis maintenance and SAFE did other aircraft I guess (before the days when everything was civil contracted).

[tbf25o4]

Immediately post-WWII the air force Repair Depot was based at Ohakea with workshops and some sections at Milson (Palmerston North airport) combined with the NZNAC engineering base. Both sections at Milson were staff by a mixture of airforce and civilians.
The repair depot moved to Woodbourne in the early 1950s
The goblin repair facility was most likely part of that set up

Paul

[avenger]

Unsure the depth of Goblin servicing at Milson but certainly a test 'house' in the late 50's the officer i/c F/L 'Hub" Farrar.

[shorty]

I think the SNCO from 14 sqn who was there may have been Harold Hodson

[shorty]

Found a bit more of this jigsaw.

In the AHSNZ Journal 7 September 1964 under "Airfield report" it states:

"The ex-NAC hangar at Milson was almost ready for occupation by Airland (NZ) Ltd by the end of June, and NAC have themselves settled into the ex-RNZAF hangar which used to house the turbine engine reconditioning unit (itself now removed to Woodbourne)

It looks like the RNZAF would have been doing only Goblins there (and the Avons were probably too new to need reconditioning) and they probably left there in late 1963/ early 64. Perhaps it was the setting up of an Avon line that led to the shift?
The quest for more accurate gen continues.

[glycol]

As I recall the Goblin overhaul shop was originally operated by De Havilland. It was later taken over and operated by the Air Force. The NCO in charge was W/O Bud Dalton. I have forgotten the officer but recall he was the most senior Flt Lt. in the Air Force

[glycol]

I missed "Avenger's" comment above. Flt Lt. Hub Farrar is correct. They did complete engine overhauls at Milson while can changes, tail pipes and crack testing compressors etc was done in the power plant bay at Ohakea. The first partial strip of the Avon was also done in the power plant bay under the direction of Flt Sgt. "Snow" Burrell.

[Dave Homewood]

How many hours could be flown on a Goblin before it had to go for overhaul?

[baz62]

May 31, 2019 22:07:07 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

How many hours could be flown on a Goblin before it had to go for overhaul?

I read somewhere the RAF got 1000 hours on one and it was still going strong. I know the older engines tend to have a shorter life than the more modern examples today. I'dd be interested to know this too and if it differs with civlian use. I recall the Harvards when retired caught a few owners out as the TBO (Time before overhaul) in the RNZAF on the R1340 was 1000 hours. However the exact same engine in civilian use had a TBO of around 600 hours. So some of the Harvards had hours still to run when sold according to the RNZAF but whoops sorry now you're a civilian you'll need an overhaul please!

[davidd]

Having just recently read through the RNZAF's DTS News Letters from April 1952 to March 1958, it seems that the Goblin was still a rather immature (wild and unruly) child at that time, and if memory serves me right their TBO was only about 200 to 300 hours then, but was later raised to about 400. It may have been even higher before the type was removed from service in about 1972, as international experience accrued. DH's (who originally operated the line at Palmerston North), and the RNZAF kept in close touch about all the world-wide problems of the Goblin, so there was plenty of experience to draw on. The RNZAF also seemed bedevilled in having at least three different types of Goblin in service simultaneously. The DH overhaul facility at Milson was a result of a contract signed in Dec 1952 between the RNZAF and DH's, although it took a year to set up the production line, so it opened "a few days before Christmas" in December 1953. The RNZAF always had an equipment sub-store on the site, and in 1957 took over the facility in its entirety, now known (as already pointed out) as the Turbine Engine Reconditioning Unit, from 2nd September, 1957. Incidentally, in May 1955, by arrangement, four RNZAF Engine Fitters at a time were to be employed on the Goblin line at Milson to gain experience on 4th Line servicing for a "tour" of 12 months, before being rotated back to the Service, normally to Ohakea where their experience would be of the greatest value. The TERU continued to function till at least late 1960, while the Avon line was being set up at Woodbourne (1 RD). The first Avon reconditioned in NZ for the RNZAF was completed at Woodbourne on 28th October 1963.
David D

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks David. Great info.

[davidd]

Dave, forgot to mention, but after closure of Milson, Goblins were reconditioned at No. 1 RD (Woodbourne) on a new line, and they moved a certain amount of the Milson equipment to Woodbourne as you would expect.
Dave D

[curtiss]

The detuner ( exhaust ) on the test house at Woodbourne came from Milson. The Milson engine test house was on the Northen side of the airfield. I went there in the late 80's, but I think it gone now.

[flymac]

Curtiss I think you are correct
My rusty memory cells recall that there was an engine testing facility on the Richardsons Line side of the Milson airfeild.
It was a small concrete building about halfway down the present runway. My father said it was an engine testing building.
We lived on the south side of Milson airfeild on Flygers line.

[davidd]

Decided to post a few items on the "life" of DH Goblin engines in RNZAF Vampires, circa August - October 1955.

Note from RAAF (Wing Commander T R Mitchell, NZJSLS, Melbourne) to RNZAF in answer to queries re "life" of Goblin engines, date 8th August. (NZJSLS = NZ Joint Services Liaison Staff)

"RAAF engines are Goblin 35 and they have accumulated very little running to the reconditioning stage. In accordance with De Havilland's recommendations the running time has been extended to 400 hours. At present they cannot state whether the hot end parts are subject to excessive deterioration. The engine is rather susceptible to wet starts and they consider it important to ensure that the engines are not being penalised in this way. They are at present experiencing trouble through failure of the impellor guide vanes and some papers are enclosed on this subject. In consequence the RAAF are considering a reduction of life to 300 hours and a half-life removal of the engine for inspection, cropping, polishing and balancing as necessary."

A reply, written by Wing Commander W G Woodward (Directorate of Technical Services, Wellington) was sent on 24th August 1955 to the above officer.

"We are also most conscious of the need to eliminate wet starts and to take precautions for re-starting in the event of a wet start occurring. The reduction in top level r.p.m. was a step we took in line with RAF action designed to reduce hot-end troubles. We have always operated our Goblin 35's at a life of 300 hours. Recently we have been operating Goblin 2's purchased with the Mark 5 Vampires at a 450 hour life. 450 hours is the life observed for Goblin 2's in the RAF. So far we have had no reason to down grade this life although we are watching the performance of these engines with some interest as we had hopes of using this experience to consider increasing life of the Goblin 35 and 3."

The RNZAF's Directorate of Technical Services' Newsletter for period 1/7 - 30/9/55 (published late October 1955) included the following statement on the New Zealand Goblin:-

Paragraph 20 - Ohakea. The service overhaul life of all marks of Goblin engine has now been standardised at 450 hours. In parallel with this, Vampire airframe servicing has been based on 150 hours minor servicing periodicity. Combustion chamber servicing is also now done at 150 hours on all marks of Goblin whereas on certain type it had previously been done at 100 hours."

David D

[davidd]

Whilst researching the above post, came across this note of the "Detuner" which was mentioned recently on this thread (June 7 post from Curtiss). It also confirms that "Detuner" was the name of the manufacturer.

Directorate of Technical Services Newsletter, period 1/4 - 30/6/56 (published 26/7/56).

"Paragraph 19, De Havillands, Milson. Next month the Ministry of Works will make a start on the installation of silencing equipment recently received from Detuners Ltd in UK. The Palmerston North City Council, the hospital and local residents in particular will welcome a reduction in noise level from the test bed. The work is scheduled to be completed in mid-January 1957. We have enough spare serviceable engines to tide us over while the bench is out of commission, provided too many unscheduled changes don't upset the apple cart!"

(Interesting to see that the author of the DTS Newsletter periodically tried to lighten the tone of these fairly dour reports by injecting a little bit of "engineers" humour from time to time. He also routinely called for any comments on any items in each issue, but eventually sadly admitted that he never received a single letter in answer to his constant appeals! Incidentally the Newsletters were always signed by Group Captain C C Hunter, but whether he was the author (or editor) is unknown - perhaps he had assistance in typing and collation from some underlings.

David D

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks for these details David, Very interesting stuff. The 300 hours may not sound a lot but from memory the Vampires did not have a duration of much more than two hours (is that right?) before fuel was all used, and most flights were probably somewhat less in duration, so I guess 300 hours would be at least 150 separate flights for the aircraft? Or am I way off there?

[camtech]

Most flights were around an hour in duration, so theoretically 300 flights between overhaul.

[Dave Homewood]

Since de Havilland Australia was producing Vampires in Australia, did the RNZAF used to source spare parts for our Vampires from them? Or did the RNZAF only deal with the UK manufacturers?