Some aircraft photos

[phas3e]

hi

I just yesterday was finally given some photos to scan which I've been trying to get for quite a while.

My Grandfathers sister was a WAAF and I believe taught navigation.

Anyway when I got the photos I realized they werent personal photos as such, but official RNZAF ones, except maybe the P40?
The Corsair I recognize from Russel Warrens markings book, and I love the detail in the hudson photo.

I also scanned the backs as they have dates and the Corsair photo has some signatures.

Im sure many may have seen these in books but I have larger versions of these scans if anyones interested.















Credit to the RNZAF Museum for the use of these photos

[Dave Homewood]

Those are excellent photos phas3e. Don't forget to credit them to RNZAF Museum though.

[phas3e]

These are scanned from my grandfathers sisters photo album, I assume she got copies during her trails in the RNZAF

[Dave Homewood]

Indeed, but those with the stamps on the back were RNZAF Official and are over 20 years old which means they are now Air Force Museum copyright. We have permission to use such here on the forum but we must credit them. No biggie.

The Hudson seems to be from No. 1 Operational Training Unit which for a few short weeks was based at Bell Block, New Plymouth but they had to move to Ohakea because the weight of the aircraft was breaking up the grass airstrip. These shots may have been taken then. They're brilliant photos and I'd really like to use them in my book.

[phas3e]

Ok cool didnt know with the age they became property of the museum.

how about the kittyhawk? it had no marks on the back and the quality is obviously worse, so assumed it was a personal photo.

I tried but the serial is unreadable. I havnt seen a red based prop on a kiwi kittyhawk, I've seen all red and red tipped but not the base.

and also the signatures and motto? on the back of the Corsair photo

[shorty]

What makes you think the back half of the spinner is red?

[Dave Homewood]

The Corsair must be NZ5357.

There is probably no copyright issue with the P-40 shot. It does look like either a personal shot, or if not it may have been printed off by an RNZAF photographer on the sly for someone - which happened often. It's hard to tell with this one. It was actually illegal to own a camera in the wartime RNZAF, however it was not a law that was heavily enforced so there were indeed people with cameras. The trick was they found it hard to get film, so often they had to get friendly with an RNZAF photographer. I think all the squadrons had an official photographer (maybe more than one) attached to handle photo-recon work, etc. And they often used to take 'official' pics to give to the squadron members. So lawfully it's RNZAF Official, but they may never have actually saved the negs for the RNZAF for some stuff and these ones in private collections are probably the only copies. However ones stamped as above are definately official as their negatives would have been held at CPE Ohakea and now (if they survived) at Wigram.

The P-40 is interesting in that it's a P-40N but appears to be in two-tone camouflage, and definately has a two-colour spinner. The back colour may have denoted the Flight it belonged to, but whether it's red or not I cannot say.

[Dave Homewood]

Do you reckon that might be a firing butt in the background of the P-40 on the right?

[shorty]

I'm not too sure that it is a two tone scheme, what appears as a colour demarcation line at the back of the cowl might just be a cowl that has been cleaned off with aslightly oily rag before being refitted or a similar scenario. The rear half of the spinner, to me, appears to be olive green (or whatever green the rest of the aircraft is painted)
It appears to be either a P 40N-5-CU or a P 40N-20-CU, if so the number would be NZ3181 or greater.

[Dave Homewood]

There also seems to be a colour demarkation on the rudder which at first I thought might be shadow, but it's a bit random for a shadow, and you can also see colour changes on the wing upper surface about the area above the roundel when blown up. I'm not 100% certain it's a two colour camo, but there are strong indications it might be.

I agree the back of the spinner is the same colour as the front of the cowl. Probably is a green colour.

[Dave Homewood]

Are there any other photos in the album like this phas3e? The ones above are great.

[tbf25o4]

re the P40 photo.
I would lay a heavy bet that it is an official RNZAF photograph for the following reasons.
1. the aircraft pose in the picture that elimantes most of the identifiable background (wartime censorship requirements)
2. The taking of photographs of aircraft by individual personnel was prohibited especially during the early war years
3. Film and processing was almost an impossibility for individuals during those times.

It would be safe to credit it to the RNZAF Museum

Paul

[Dave Homewood]

That's a very good point about the angle there Paul - I've noticed a lot of the official shots are a lower angle like this as if the photographer has squatted, perhaps to try to hide background as you suggest and maybe markings or aerials in some shots - and the average box brownie operator might not have thought about the lower angle framing.

[phas3e]

Cheers for the opinions.

On the P40, im not sure about it being in camo, the darker area doesnt appear to be shadow but also doesnt match the RAF 'B' scheme used on most camo'd P40s.
Its still possible it had a 'made up' pattern which was used for example when Hurricanes of 87Sqn were painted in a very random day fighter scheme for action over Dieppe.

These were the only aircraft photos she had, there were some personnel pictures but wasnt given them to scan.

If you want Dean I can send you Higher res versions.

On another note I received my copy of 'Last stand in Singapore' the book about 488Sqn today, So I shall be having a good flick tonight

[Dave Homewood]

I think the P-40N would have been delivered in USAAF colours, and some of their P-40's did have a camouflage pattern on the upper fuselage and tail, but I don't think in the way this looks on the wings. It may be just a trick of the light, or it may be an interesting NZ repaint scheme. It's a shame the photographer didn't walk round to the side a bit.

I'd like higher res scans of the Hudson photos if possible please Travis. Who's Dean?

[phas3e]

Ah sorry ment Dave...

Yup i can send the Husdon ones