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Post by shorty on Oct 21, 2008 12:21:35 GMT 12
Meteors were flying in Singapore later than 1961. There was a Target Facility Flight (?) of about 4 flying out of Changi in 1968 as I took a slide of at least the the F8 flying over Tengah in 1968 or 69. I think they only had the 1 single seater anf the rest were two seaters
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fbarryf
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 3
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Post by fbarryf on Oct 21, 2008 14:33:04 GMT 12
Hi Y'all,
I suspect the photo of the Meteor with Vampires in close attendance has been taken over Southern Jahore shortly after 14 Squadron moved to Singapore. The Meteor was used for air -to-air target towing. You can note the banner cable stretching behind the Meteor. The Meteor did not "belong" to 14 Squadron but came from the Meteor Flight based at RAF Seletar on Singapore's northern coastline.
The individuals in the first photo of assorted airmen following the photo of Harvard 75 are from the Left, F/L Barrie Reid, F/L Stew Boys, F/L John Buckmster, F/L Barry Flavall and G/C Stan Quill. I suspect the photo was taken on the afternoon of 16 March 1962 after the Wigram Formation (16 a/c) had flown to Taieri for the RNZAC Pagent that was held the next day.
The next photo is of the then Harvard Formation Team with Barrie Reid on the left, F/L Stew Boys, W/C Mal Gunton, Wing Commander Flying Wigram, S/L Ted Arundel and F/L John Canning RAF exchange officer kneeling. Not certain of the year but could have been early 1963.
Next photo is of F/L Barry Gordon, S/L Ted Arundel, F/L Stew Boys, F/L John Canning and F/L Barrie Reid.
Can't help with too many of the individuals in the group photos which were undoubtedly taken at Officer's School, but the solo pilot in Harvard 65 is of me, F/L Barry Flavall.
Regards,
FBF
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 21, 2008 14:49:52 GMT 12
Thanks for those details Barry. That was some nice tight formation work you were doing in that Harvard.
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Post by corsair67 on Oct 21, 2008 15:06:53 GMT 12
What an amazing collection of shots! More please! ;D
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Post by glideboy on Oct 21, 2008 22:00:01 GMT 12
Thanks for your reply Barry. I will make anote of those names. Hey Harvard 1041, I couldn't find a reference to this in Barrie's log book until June 17th 1957 where he flew it at Wigram. He seemed to then fly it on a semi regular basis through to August where he moved to the Fighter Operational Coversion Unit, Ohakea.
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Post by corsair67 on Oct 21, 2008 22:21:43 GMT 12
Glideboy, it's great to see that Barrie's photos and logbook have fallen into such good hands, and will be well taken care of into the future. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case with items such as these, which were treasured by their original owner, but then have no meaning to their family once the owner has departed to the great airfield in the sky. Thanks again for sharing these remarkable images with us.
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Post by glideboy on Oct 22, 2008 8:26:04 GMT 12
Glideboy, it's great to see that Barrie's photos and logbook have fallen into such good hands, and will be well taken care of into the future. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case with items such as these, which were treasured by their original owner, but then have no meaning to their family once the owner has departed to the great airfield in the sky. Thanks again for sharing these remarkable images with us. Thanks Corsair, I'm just the temporary custodian. My wife Janet and her sister Susan are currently occupied with Barrie's estate, and as I have said in an earlier post some of the family are currently overseas. I would like to see the photos and log books preserved (preferably in one place) for the family but I will have to respect the wider family wishes. I have only realised the value of these since I have taken up flying myself. A couple of years ago we took Barrie down to Ashburton for the day and went along to the museum there. It turned out that he had flown just about all the aircraft on display there...and not just the type...the actual aircraft. However while I have the albums, I will slowly work through them, scanning and posting as time and forum interest allows. There are 4 albums and so far you have seen a small portion of one.
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Post by glideboy on Oct 22, 2008 19:19:55 GMT 12
Todays fix. Barry F's comment about the meteor target towing got me looking through more of the Singapore photos: Meteor & target Target inspection Assorted from Sing: Startup Sunderland? Hastings? Venoms Aussie Lincoln & No 14 Venoms Barrie's comment: "Fred smashes Ron Mac's new Venom" People: Andy & Willie Fred John And I assume that this is back in NZ: Auster? As you can see I certainly don't know my aircraft!
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Post by shorty on Oct 22, 2008 19:52:53 GMT 12
Looking at these great photos raises a question that I hope someone knowlegable on Venoms can answer. All the photos and film I have seen of Venoms starting the plume of smoke from the starter cartridge rises vertically, in this photo it is horizontal. Why?
Also note the guy wearing a ski cap in the target shot, this comes back to an earlier query I raaised. Was there a tropical weight ski cap or did they wear the heavy serge NZ weight issue? All the erks in the Hastings shot are wearing F/S caps (except the Pom in his Beret) I'm more confused than ever as when my Dad wore a ski cap he didn't have a F/S issued.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Oct 22, 2008 20:33:39 GMT 12
Yes that's an Auster J-5. NZ1704 was briefly on loan to James Aviation as ZK-AVY in 1952. Final fate - crashed on landing Maungatawhiri 4Dec68. Sold by tender (closing 25Aug69) in damaged condition. The Sunderland KN-C could be NZ4105 NZ4109 or NZ4116, all of 6Sdn.
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Post by FlyNavy on Oct 22, 2008 20:36:01 GMT 12
Having flown about 100 hours in Sea Venoms at NAS Nowra shorty I would venture we see a strong wind blowing the black smoke. I'll post one or two Sea Venom starts if you require them but right now I'm a bit tired of typing and finding stuff. ;D Let me know. Otherwise you could download one of my interminable PDFs from online to discover the Sea Venom photos for yourself. Zooming in on the photo you mention it would seem that this Venom has a more horizontal vent anyway? I would not recall exactly the angle of the Sea Venom vent. This is where photos are handy. Whatever. Sea Venom & Vampire PDF is at: (288Mb) files.filefront.com/RANFAAseaVenomVampireJul08pdf/;11083148;/fileinfo.htmlOR older smaller PDF about the Sea Venom only at: (50Mb) files.filefront.com/VenomOnly13apr07MinPagepdf/;7234805;/fileinfo.html
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Post by shorty on Oct 22, 2008 21:00:54 GMT 12
Thats the only shot I've seen with the smoke horizontal and, like you say, this one seems to have a horizontal vent (that'd give a liney an earful of soot!). There is no sign of the smoke starting to go vertical and then getting blown in a wind. There is a very well known shot of 14s Venoms starting and there is about 14 in the line and on all of them the smoke appears to be much more vertical. I'll have a look at the film clip that was on recently about the reunion.
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Post by FlyNavy on Oct 22, 2008 21:21:32 GMT 12
Fair enough.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 22, 2008 21:22:49 GMT 12
More smashing photos in that last batch Paul.
That photo that is captioned "Fred smashes Ron Mac's new Venom" is interesting. there's a photo in Stewart Boys' book 'Singapore Sojourn' of a Venom that Fred Tucker crashed while undershooting the runway on the 7th of December 1956, but it appears to be a different machine as in that the undercarriage is broken, the nose cone broken off, there are no checks on the tail, and there is writing under the canopy windscreen as well as a badge, plus the background is different. So if the Fred in question was Fred Tucker he must have had at least two minor-ish accidents in Venoms!
Unless it was Fred Kinvig who was also on the squadron (he who crahsed a Skyhawk AND a Harvard, surely not the treble?)
In Barrie's shot there are some items on the foreground, are they shell casings, starter cartidges or something like that perhaps?
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Post by shorty on Oct 22, 2008 21:36:27 GMT 12
Starter Cartridges
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Post by Bruce on Oct 22, 2008 21:46:06 GMT 12
About the venom starter exhaust, the aircraft had a multi - breach cartridge starter system (similar to the "Rotax" unit on the thread about the Queensland Air Museum) If the first cartridge failed or had been previously used, the second was then fired. Possibly this second cartridge had a different exhaust outlet, and came out more horizontal... I'm trying to remember what the second ZK-VNM had when I worked on it - I know the main breach had been modified with an air fitting to allow starting off a couple of dive bottles, but can't visualise how the second breach was arranged....
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Post by mumbles on Oct 22, 2008 23:43:16 GMT 12
The original ZK reg Venom starting up at Wanganui in 1989:
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Post by mumbles on Oct 22, 2008 23:44:59 GMT 12
As you can see I certainly don't know my aircraft! I wouldn't say that, you got all those ones right!
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Post by skyhawkdon on Oct 23, 2008 6:57:21 GMT 12
Great photos! Thanks for sharing these with us. Personal photo collections are often far more interesting than the official record!
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Post by glideboy on Oct 23, 2008 17:19:46 GMT 12
There is a very well known shot of 14s Venoms starting and there is about 14 in the line and on all of them the smoke appears to be much more vertical. I'll have a look at the film clip that was on recently about the reunion. I was going to reply with "do you mean this one?" but when I took it out of the frame to scan I realised that it is actually a painting..or at least a photo which has been totally touched up with paint. Nothing on the back about it. I have a number of other photos coloured in with paint, but this seems to be different. Can anyone shed some light on this?
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