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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Mar 26, 2009 21:29:24 GMT 12
Thanks Jon, that's interesting. So NZ used to have a thriving locomotive industry and a thriving shipbuilding industry, but it's only since the 1970's that the aircraft industry has kicked in and even today it's a minnow. That's a pity. NZR railway workshops at Christchurch (Addington), Dunedin (Hillside) and Woburn (Hutt Shops) built hundreds of steam locomotives. A&G Price at Thames built a large number as well. All were designed in NZ and NZR mechanical engineers also designed most of the locomotives that were built overseas for NZ service throughout the 20th Century. In fact, one type of locomotive, the Pacific type (4-6-2 wheel arrangement) was a NZ invention with the first examples being built for NZR to the NZR engineers' design by the Baldwin Locomotive Company in the USA in 1901. The type was so successful, that it was adopted by locomotive builders all over the world (including in the USA) and further developed; and in fact the Pacific type became the most numerous type of steam locomotive world-wide. And it was a NZ invention! The J classes of locomotive were designed in NZ, although the first 40 were built by North British Locomotive Company of Scotland in 1939 due to the NZR workshops working at full capacity constructing Ka and Kb class locomotives. However, when the second batch of Js were built (35 "improved" Ja's), they were built at Dunedin's Hillside shops between 1946 and 1956 (including the one owned by Peter Coleman). A third batch of J-type locomotives came from North British in 1951, these being 16 Ja's for North Island service, with most of them being based at Auckland. Unlike the Hillside Ja's which were coal-burners, the North British Ja's in the North Island were oil-burners. So....we did once have really heavy mechanical engineering industries in NZ.
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Post by yak11fan on Mar 27, 2009 10:38:58 GMT 12
From memory she had a little over 400 hours total time when she arrived in the UK in kit form at Easter 97. She flew again on 13th July 2001.
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Post by baz62 on Mar 27, 2009 14:24:41 GMT 12
I forgot to welcome you to the forum Doug (xbaggie). So welcome aboard! I saw your bio in the "Introduce yourself" thread and was interested to read what types you were involved with. I sat up when you mentioned Harvard NZ1050 (Wigram's gate guardian). At the aeroclub a few years ago I met a chap who said his father had told him that the engine in 1050 was the original engine from her arrival in the country. Sounds like long odds unless she happened to get her original engine back by pure chance and someone noticed in the logbook? I was chatting to some of the Air Force museum guys in 3 hangar one day and they mentioned corrosion in the wings and that with her new position and the port wing end on into the norwest (instead of nose into the norwest originally) they hope she doesn't lose a wing one day!! Baz ;D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2009 15:06:31 GMT 12
When we stripped and repainted NZ1050 in 1993 it was amazingly quite lacking in corrosion and little repair work was needed before it was repainted. I know the flying surfaces had to be retaped and doped to seal them as the tape had rotted away, but apart form a really good clean, that's about it. And we were doing a really thorough job because we believed then it might be it's last repaint for a long time since Technical Squadron was about to disband at the time. However on recent visits (2004 and 2006) it still looks pristine externally so I suspect it must have been repainted again since, when they shifted it?? If it has now got heavy corrosion it would have been post-1993, and it's sad to hear.
I seriously thought it had a dummy engine in it, or at least a lightened one. I'm not sure now, I may be thinking of the one inside the museum. I know it had a perspex cover in front of the engine inside the cowl to stop birds getting in.
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Post by baz62 on Mar 27, 2009 15:51:37 GMT 12
The one in 1087 is the engine I built Dave so you are correct there! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) I would have thought they would have put a time-expired engine in her and kept the current one (ie: the one she had in storage) for future use. I think the main issue is internal corrosion as I know on 1040 we had a fair bit due to unpainted internal structure in the rear fuselage and centre-section. Perhaps when she comes down they do a close inspection on all the load bearing structure, especially the centre section and wing joints. Hate to see her fall apart as she is(as well as the Museum) a salute to all who served at Wigram and should be looked after. Baz ;D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2009 18:56:20 GMT 12
Did NZ2427 remain that complete and intact all the way through its life by the way? Till these photos appeared here I never knew it looked so good and that it was runnable, etc. Did it stay this complete till his death or did Peter Coleman disassemble it after these photos? I thought it was all in bits, but that may be NZ2424 I was thinking of.
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Post by xbaggy on Mar 27, 2009 19:13:57 GMT 12
1050 was one of the Harvards in long term storage at Wigram. It was trucked to Woodbourne where it was stripped of wiring, Instruments and panels and anything else that could be unbolted. I do not think that the Airframe had a lot of hours on it at that stage, but cannot speak for the engine. At Woodbourne quite a few of these early model Harvards were upgraded to operational status. From memory 1015 and 1058 were two of these, that were fitted with FM radio gear to liase with the army. They replaced the Austers as forward air control aircraft.
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Post by xbaggy on Mar 27, 2009 19:22:18 GMT 12
Dave, I am not sure what state NZ2427 was in when she was sold to Sir Tim. Pete seemed to lose interest in the aviation side, when he aquired the Ja loco.
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Post by yak11fan on Mar 27, 2009 20:25:40 GMT 12
She was completely stripped, even the aircraft's skins had been removed. It had previously been stored under Peter Coleman's house.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2009 20:36:12 GMT 12
Thanks Yak, I thought that was the case. I saw the Mustang shortly after it arrived at Wanaka at Easter 1993 when I was there for the opening of the NZFPM, and it was a pile of bits in the hangar. I wasn't sure if I had seen '24 or '27, but it may have been both I guess. At that time I thought it was only the one. Hard to believe anyone could go from that beautiful running aircraft in the photos to a pile of bits and then back to a flyer, amazing.
This has been a very interesting thread, planes, trains and automobiles!
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Post by xbaggy on Mar 27, 2009 21:48:59 GMT 12
Yea Dave makes me a bit sad, as 27 was a candidate for rebuild, with not a lot of work when I last saw her
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2009 22:28:58 GMT 12
At least there's a happy ending to it with this one, unlike so many other aircraft bought by individuals after the war like that.
I guess three complete surviving ex-RNZAF Mustangs out of the 30 we had is not too bad, especially since two are flying and one will fly soon if not already. It would be nice to see them have a reunion one day, say in NZ somewhere. Yeah, right... Mind you the Corsair and P-40 came home...
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Post by shorty on Mar 28, 2009 8:41:35 GMT 12
Did you include NZ 2423? My count has 30 received, 1 w/o while unloading, 7 crashed and 5 existing (although this includes 2 being incorporated into 1) The 5 are NZ 2406, NZ 2417, NZ 2423, NZ 2427 and NZ 2429. I have '24 as the one going into Lyttleton Harbour 12 out of 30?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 28, 2009 10:57:04 GMT 12
I forgot about John Smith's example!! Even better odds.
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Post by shamus on Mar 28, 2009 11:11:33 GMT 12
I recall now that the engine from Peters Mustang ended up in Graham Craw's Packard Car Museum and as far as I know is still there today.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 28, 2009 13:05:16 GMT 12
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Post by Dave.K on Mar 28, 2009 15:14:45 GMT 12
Hi, If anyone has a copy of Wings November 1982, has the write-up on the mustangs. Shows 2427 at Omaka airshow in April 1959, it also says vandals damaged both 2427 & 2428, resulting in both aircraft being dismantled and stored with a number of components sent to austrailia to assist Robert Vuletich's restoration project. Peter Coleman also had bits of 2402, 03, 05 ,13, 14 and 26. Also says 2427 lost its wings outboard of undercart and was rebuilt using wings off 2402,prop off 2423, and wheels off 2408.If no one esle can find mag I will scan pages and get them on site.
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Post by harvard1041 on Mar 28, 2009 16:22:39 GMT 12
Great thread - knew Pete as a kid in the early 1970s then caught up again 1988-89 when at WB in the mob. What a character he was ! ....and a good talker ... get him and John Smith together and just sit back and listen ...mind you little chance getting a word in edgeways. Nice guy - died 1989 I believe with cancer - the chemo was pretty hard on him.
I recall the steam train up at his place on Ben Morvan road - house was called 'Biggin Hill' - believe he used to fire the boiler up and take it outside and around on his turntable. Used to run one of his Kestrals around at Brian Barry st as well.
Nice guy.
Rgds Hvd1041
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Post by tbf25o4 on Mar 30, 2009 8:23:12 GMT 12
I can well remember bits of mustangs in Tim Wallis's deer shed which we used as accommodation for WOW 1992. These were reputably ex Blenheim
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 30, 2009 8:37:28 GMT 12
You lucked out there Paul, I was in the RNZAF contingent down from Wigram for WOW 1992 and he put us up in a fairly good house used for shearers on one of his properties. No shed for us. I hadn't realise that the Mustangs were there as early as 1992 though, interesting. I was told they were fairly recent arrivals when I was there at Easter 1993 when I flew down there in Plonky, but they were at Luggate airfield by then so perhaps that is where they'd recently arrived to, from the deer shed.
Davejodel, you mentioned "a number of components sent to austrailia to assist Robert Vuletich's restoration project" - was that before he had his projects at Rotorua, or did they go to Australia from Rotorua? No-ne seems to have any firm details on tgis guy and his three or so Mustangs that were at Rotorua (see the link I pasted above).
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