Lost without trace until now - NZ5517

[baz62]

Mar 30, 2020 9:10:45 GMT 12 Mustang51 said:

why the seeming 'split' in the roundel surround? Different thicknesses but are there any panel line splits there. I am not all that familiar with Corsair structure...

If you look closely the yellow ring stops to meet up with the thin blue outline of the Bar. Looks like they followed the blue outline of the original Star and bar for the round part but as the yellow didn't include the bar part they stopped there.

[baronbeeza]

[axelford]

Sorry, What’s the picture of exactly?

[baronbeeza]

It is a pic of a logbook page concerning the Westport Corsairs. Can people here not see the pics ?

[baz62]

Apr 4, 2020 19:07:29 GMT 12 baronbeeza said:

It is a pic of a logbook page concerning the Westport Corsairs. Can people here not see the pics ?

Yes I can see this pic.

[Dave Homewood]

I can see it fine Kevin, thanks for posting.

[axelford]

Ah, I didn’t see the left page before, very interesting post.

[lwwakeman]

Hi any news on NZ5517
Has anything been found off it

[axelford]

Sadly looks like it continues to be a big no. The person who claimed they had information upped and left and there's no sudden headline news about "Lost WW2 RNZAF Plane Found" 

[Dave Homewood]

Here is an old article that may be of interest, from the The Press, 28 Sept 1961.

Air Mystery May Be Solved By Search Near Reefton

(New Zealand Press Association) GREYMOUTH, September 27.

A search which may solve one of New Zealand s air mysteries had to be cancelled today through adverse weather. Chief Inspector H. O. L. Hansen, officer-in-charge of the West Coast Police District, said tonight that Sergeant B. Kelly, of Reefton, and Mr E. Ensor, who is in charge of Forestry Service operations in the Inangahua district, had to terminate the search until the weather improves. This is not expected to be until about Friday. The two men were searching for what is thought could possibly be an aircraft wreckage.

Bushmen working in an isolated region west of the Inangahua river, near McMurray creek, in bush-covered hills about five miles west of Rotokohu, earlier this week had their attention attracted to an object which reflected light. The flash from the bush, which is up the eastern slopes of the Paparoa range, came from an area which is uninhabited and rarely visited because of its isolation, heavy timber, and steep slopes. Bushmen were unable to identify the object definitely as the wreckage of an aircraft, but their suspicions are being followed up by the police. Yesterday, Sergeant Kelly and Mr Ensor left to investigate.

Hampered By Fog and Rain
Their progress through the difficult terrain was hampered by fog and rain, and they were unable to reach the site of the find.

However, they were able to observe the material through field glasses, confirming that it was reflecting and unusual, but unable to be convinced that it was definitely the remains of an aircraft. The men returned to Reefton in the afternoon, but with others left this morning to make another attempt to locate the possible wreckage.

Police feel that it is possible there is a normal explanation for the reflections from the isolated region, but the theory that they are produced by the wreckage of a plane has not been discounted.

No aircraft has gone missing on the West Coast in recent years to lend support to the reports.

War-time Disappearances
However, a 17-year-old mystery could be solved if the object proves to be wreckage of an aircraft. A Corsair disappeared on a flight back to Westport in 1944. This aircraft was one of four on a cross-country flight prior to a group of pilots leaving for overseas. The section left Auckland for Westport, Harewood, and return to Auckland, and was led by Flying Officer R. Reynolds, of Westport.

On the flight from Auckland the Corsair, piloted by Pilot Officer C. Barstow, had radio trouble. The four aircraft circled over Westport and made for Christchurch, but at a height of 8000 feet in the vicinity of Inangahua Junction one aircraft developed engine trouble, and the flight decided to return to Westport.

At this time cloud enabled the merest visible contact with each aircraft. On the turn to change direction Pilot Officer B Barstow’s Corsair disappeared from the formation, and did not reply to repeated radio calls. The remaining aircraft returned to Westport.

Next day a search was made around Inangahua, and later an Air Rescue operation took over. No trace was seen of the aircraft, and, today, Flying Officer Reynolds said it had always been his contention that Pilot Officer Barstow’s Corsair went down near Inangahua.

In the war years at least two Harvard trainer fighter aircraft went missing from Woodbourne aerodrome, and they were never discovered. Flying Officer John McKenzie, a son of the late Sir John McKenzie, went missing from a training flight from a R.N.ZA.F. station, and the wreckage of his aircraft, which is thought to have crashed in the top part of the South Island, has never been recovered.

Another unsolved air mystery was the disappearance of Messrs Moncrief and Hood who were attempting to cross the Tasman from Australia. They are thought to have crashed in the north end of the South Island.

[Dave Homewood]

And this article follows up the one just above.

Object In Search Now Identified

The search for the strange glistening object seen by bush workers to the thickly-bushed Rotokohu area, north of Reefton, has ended. It has been almost certainly identified as a tinfoil radar reflector dropped from a meteorological balloon. When the object was first noticed last week, it was thought to be the wreckage of an aircraft. The reflecting object was noted to be half-way up a tree, said Chief Inspector H. O. Hansen, of the Greymouth police, yesterday. Although searchers could clearly see it from a few miles away, they were unable to find it when they reached its position, to spite of a thorough search of the ridge on which it had been seen. This was probably because they had no reflection to guide them from their positions under the trees.

"There is definitely nothing in the way of wreckage on the ridge, and no further search will be made,” said Inspector Hansen. A radar reflector is part of a radio transmitter which is sent up below a balloon from various weather stations to New Zealand. It is usually about 3ft across the base. The reflector to question is thought to be from a balloon sent up from the Christchurch airport to aid weather calculations.

[Dave Homewood]

Some articles from The Press. This one dated 3th of July 1983:

Part of missing plane found?

Westport reporter

Westport’s Coaltown director, Mr Peter Harker, is in Christchurch with what he believes is an air cleaner or supercharger snorkel off a fighter plane which has been missing for almost 40 years.

He hopes a positive identification can be made by Air Force officials at Wigram.

Mr Harker recovered the aluminium or alloy metal fragment on Saturday in remote bush country in a locality known as the Haystack, about 35km west of Reefton and slightly north of Inangahua. He described it as being a metre long with nine wing nuts with the words, “Lion 260,” imprinted on them.

He believes it could have come from a gull-wing F4U Corsair aircraft which disappeared with its pilot, Brian Barstow, on November 11, 1944. There had been several reported sightings of the aircraft, especially over the last six months, although most have been in the Berlins Bluff region of the Buller Gorge.

Mr Harker’s find was on the opposite side of the river. However, it is believed that the aircraft could be anywhere within a 100 km radius of Berlins. Mr Harker thinks there could be much more remaining of the Corsair near his recent find.

“The piece we found was on a big shingle slope,” he said, “but there could be much more scattered over a wide area in the scrub.”

The director of the R.N.Z.A.F. Museum at Wigram, Squadron Leader John Barry, said last evening that he had looked at the aircraft part found by Mr Harker, but it would be several days before the part could be confirmed or otherwise as coming from a Corsair. This would be done by trying to match the part with a picture or diagram from a publication of Corsair parts.

[Dave Homewood]

From The Press, 7th of July 1983:

Helicopter to be used in search for plane

The Royal New Zealand Air Force will use an Iroquois helicopter to search for the Corsair aircraft which has been missing on the West Coast for almost 40 years. The R.N.Z.A.F. public relations officer, Squadron Leader Chris Cole, has said that he thought the Iroquois would go into the area on a training flight within the next few days.

The Corsair aircraft disappeared on a training flight from Ardmore to Christchurch on November 11, 1944. Since then there have been a number of reported sightings of the aircraft and a Westport man has claimed this week to have found a piece of the wreckage.

The piece, which its finder, Mr Peter Harker, believes could be an air cleaner or supercharger snorkel, is now being studied at the R.N.Z.A.F. Museum at Wigram. Staff at the museum are trying to match the discovered part with an item from a publication of Corsair parts, thereby confirming or otherwise that the part has come from the missing aircraft. The director of the museum, Squadron Leader John Barry, said last evening that he was fairly certain that the part was from an aircraft. He described the piece as “pretty enigmatic.” It is painted "a nothing colour” of grey. Squadron Leader Barry says that he would have thought that if it came from a Corsair it would have been painted in camouflage colours.

“But the kind of grey colour it is could have come off any peacetime aircraft as well.” he said.

Squadron Leader Cole said that the Air Force had been in touch with the Civil Aviation Division and had been told that there were no known civil aircraft wrecks in the area where Mr Harker has claimed to have found the part. “We may have something,” he said.

However, he said that the part had been found in a creek and could have been washed some distance. “Someone may have picked it up and carried it — how far we do not know.”

The helicopter flight would enable the Air Force to have a look at the area and see what sort of terrain the wreckage might be in.

[Dave Homewood]

From The Press, 9th of July 1983:

Aircraft piece identified as helicopter part

The piece of aircraft found on the West Coast last week and thought to be from an R.N.Z.A.F. Corsair missing since 1944, is from a helicopter. 

A Westport man, Mr Peter Harker, found the piece and took it to the R.N.Z.A.F. Museum at Wigram for identification. He believed it might have been an air cleaner or supercharger snorkel, and museum staff spent several days poring over Corsair manuals trying to confirm the identification.

After a photograph of the museum director, Squadron Leader J. K. Barry, with the piece appeared in “The Star,” an employee of Airwork N.Z., Ltd, who was working on a Hiller helicopter, telephoned the museum to say he recognised the part. It is now known that it is a panel from a Hiller 12E helicopter.

Squadron Leader Barry said it was a mystery how the part came to be in the area. The Civil Aviation Division have no records of civilian aircraft wreckage where the piece was found. Squadron Leader Barry said it had been heartwarming to see the number of people who had telephoned (some on toll calls) and written letters to the museum in an effort to identify the piece or provide more information. About 20 or 30 people had got in touch with him, he said.

The Air Force public relations officer in Wellington, Squadron Leader Chris Cole, said yesterday that the planned flight over the area where the piece had been found had been called off. The Air Force had proposed to send an Iroquois helicopter into the area some time next week on a training flight.

[Dave Homewood]

Another article from The Press on 11th of November 1983:

Missing Corsair of 39 years still unexplained mystery

By

LINDA HARRISON

Mystery still surrounds a Royal New Zealand Air Force cross-country training flight that left Ardmore aerodrome in Auckland 39 years ago. Four Corsair aircraft set out on the flight for Christchurch on November 11, 1944. None was to arrive that day — and one of the aircraft, along with its pilot, has never been seen since.

“We were getting ready to go back overseas. We had lost eight pilots three weeks before and had a lot of new chums in the line,” said the formation leader of the fateful flight, Bob Reynolds. His charges for that flight were Pilot Officers Brian Barstow, Norm Reeve, and Peter Sheppard. Squadron Leader (as he is now) Reynolds is the first to admit that his memories of what happened 39 years ago are not crystal clear. But the Air Force file on the flight does record what happened.

“I made out a flight plan ... New Plymouth direct Blenheim-Harewood. The met. report was very favourable with an anti-cyclone covering New Zealand except on the southern tip of the South Island, where conditions were cloudy but not expected to reach Christchurch for 12 hours,”

P.O. Reynolds told the officer commanding flying at Ardmore. “I called Harewood ... for change of flight plan going down the centre of South Island but did not get any reply so changed course to include Westport ... We circled the town for a period of five minutes and set course for Christchurch.

“We commenced climbing ... to avoid cloud which was coming up from the south west, and climbed into scattered cloud. At this time Pilot Officer Sheppard’s aircraft commenced to run badly and asked for permission to go back and land at Westport: I gave him this and the reciprocal to steer and we continued to climb through foggy cloud to about 9000 feet and decided we had best turn back also.

“I called up for a turn to port... and that we were also returning. Pilot Officer Barstow was on my starboard for about half the turn and commenced to slip out until we could not see him.

“I called him and gave a vector to steer immediately but there was no reply so we continued back to Westport above cloud and came into the clear and told Pilot Officer Reeve to also land and call Harewood ... as mine did not seem to be transmitting on that frequency and I continued to circle round trying to contact Pilot Officer Barstow, but did not get any reply on any V.H.F. channels so went in also to land,” Pilot Officer Reynolds’ account read.

For the remainder of that day and the next day bad weather prevented aerial searches being made for P.O. Barstow’s aircraft. Ground searches were not immediately started as the location of the plane when it was last seen was not exactly known and nobody had any idea how much further the aircraft could have continued before coming down. An Air Force inquiry into the loss of the aircraft and pilot was held.

“It appears as if the primary cause of this accident was the inability of Pilot Officer Barstow to remain in formation with his leader whilst flying in cloud,” the inquiry report said.

During questioning in the days after the accident P.O. Reynolds said that P.O. Barstow had not appeared to be in any difficulty at the time he skidded out of the turn.

“During the turn I noticed that he was watching me. Just before he finally disappeared from my view he was skidding out away from me all the time and finally faded into the murk when about three wing spans away. The turn was a climbing one and we came out in clear sky about another 1000 feet on a reciprocal course,” P.O. Reynolds said. He had decided to turn back for Westport in the interests of keeping the flight intact and to ensure that Pilot Officer Sheppard had landed safely at Westport.

“I have just remembered,” P.O. Reynolds told the inquiry, “that just prior to turning Pilot Officer Barstow transmitted that his windscreen was covered with oil, and that he could not see out of it ahead. This message was also heard by the other aircraft in the formation. The fact that he did not answer me after he broke away from the formation makes it seem possible that he could transmit but could not receive.”

Later, a general duties officer told the inquiry that oil on the windscreen was quite a common thing,” and it sometimes becomes so excessive that the pilot either places the aircraft unserviceable or instructs one of the ground crew to rub the windscreen down.”

The witness said he could not remember ever making a flight without experiencing oil on the windscreen and that Pilot Officer Barstow’s radio message “merely revealed a normal condition.”

“In Pilot Officer Barstow’s case lack of forward visibility should not have affected his ability to keep station in formation as it would not be necessary for him to look ahead, and his side vision would be clear,” the witness said.

The court of inquiry found in favour of this witness’s evidence. Of the others who flew in the formation, Norm Reeve, who has his home in the North Island, is on an extended trip overseas. Peter Sheppard is now a Christchurch businessman but well remembers his flying days and in particular his last flight with “Curly” Barstow.

“I have lived with this thing for a long, long time — obviously you don’t close it out of your life. He was a great friend of mine — a personal friend.”

He can remember his engine cutting out after flying in cloud for about three minutes on the fatal cross-country flight On November 11.

“I went into a diving turn, came out of the turn into a dive, and nearly hit a mountain. When I landed in Westport it was pouring with rain. We really had no idea we were going to strike such heavy weather.”

In the intervening 39 years Peter Sheppard has thought a lot about that flight. “The night before we deployed on my first tour overseas Barstow’s mother sent a telegram wishing us good luck on the trip.”

Since 1944 there have been several reported sightings of aircraft wreckage thought to belong to the Corsair P.O. Barstow had been flying. Reports of an aircraft having been heard in the area of Mount Crusader on the morning the Corsair went missing were checked with aerial searches of the area between Westport, Inangahua Junction, and Mount Crusader. Nothing was found. In another case a farmer reported having heard several aircraft passing eastwards over Inangahua Junction on November 11, 1944, and soon after heard a single aircraft returning towards Westport in a westerly direction. About 20 minutes later the same farmer heard another aircraft flying northeast at a very high altitude. A little later he heard a plane approaching from the west at a low altitude.

The farmer later noticed a white object on a ridge and thought this could have been aircraft wreckage. The sighting was finally checked in 1948 and found to be a tree.

In July of this year a Westport man found a piece from an aircraft which he thought might be part of the Corsair wreckage. After it was taken to the Royal New Zealand Air Force Museum at Wigram it was identified as coming from a Hiller 12E helicopter.

The president of the Ferrymead Aeronautical Society, Mr Kevin Winterburn, last year became interested in the fate of the Corsair aircraft. In November, he met Peter Sheppard and the two talked about the training flight. As a result of their discussions a new search was organised with three men using vehicles and helicopters to get into the area where earlier sightings had been made. That search was financed by Mr Winterburn and Mr Sheppard. Nothing was found.

The fate of P.O. Barstow and his Corsair aircraft may never be discovered. He could have continued on a course towards Harewood and crashed somewhere along the way. Alternatively, he could have completed the turn he began with the formation and headed towards the coast, possibly coming down in the sea.


Pilot Officer Barstow after joining the Air Force — a photograph now kept by his sister, Mrs Lyndsay Mason, of Ngongotaha.


The path taken by the formation as it left Westport, turned and returned. The route taken by Pilot Officer Barstow before he disappeared from view is also shown.

Eight on missing list

Corsair NZ5517 is one of only eight crashed military aircraft for which wreckage has not been located.



AU of the missing aircraft crashed between 1942 and 1955, seven ef them daring the years of World War IL They include one other Corsair, two Harvards, a Vildebeeste, a Fairey Gordon, a Vincent, and a Mustang.

The Ministry of Defence has published a pamphlet guiding groups interested in recovering crashed military aircraft of historical interest.



The pamphlet stresses that crashed military aircraft remain the property of the Crown, even if the whereabouts of the wreckage is known but a decision is made not to recover it.


Crown consent is necessary before anyone can recover wreckage and from the local Receiver of Wrecks in the case of an aircraft which crashed into coastal waters. Conditions relating to the recovery of firearms, ammunition, explosives, human remains, personal property, books, documents, and papers are also included.

[Dave Homewood]

From The Press, 16 February 1984.

Search for wartime missing aircraft

Twelve servicemen from the Royal New Zealand Air Force are carrying out a ground search for a World War II aircraft missing in the Berlins area on the West Coast.

The aircraft, a R.N.Z.A.F. Corsair, went missing on a formation cross-country training flight that left Ardmore Aerodrome, Auckland, on November 11, 1944. After flying over Westport, the formation headed for Christchurch, but the formation leader decided to return to land at Westport after one pilot reported engine problems.

The missing aircraft, flown by Pilot Officer Brian Barstow, was lost from the formation during the turn back to Westport, and it has been suggested that the pilot either lost his bearings in the cloud or through faulty radio equipment did not hear of the change of plans and became disorientated.

A R.N.ZA.F. inquiry at the time found that the loss of the aircraft was caused by the pilot’s inability to remain in formation with his leader while flying in cloud. Searches were made in the days immediately after the loss of the aircraft, and subsequent sightings have been made, and in some cases disproved.

The R.N.Z.A.F. team doing the present search is combining it with adventurous expedition training. The team entered the Berlins area on Monday and is due out on Sunday. Some of the party are members of the search and rescue team at Woodbourne, where they are all based.

The team went in emptyhanded and was resupplied by a helicopter drop on Tuesday.

The aircraft is one of only eight crashed military aircraft for which wreckage has not been located.

[Dave Homewood]

Search for W.W. II plane resumes

The Royal New Zealand Air Force will make another search next month for a Corsair aircraft missing on the West Coast for 40 years.

The R.N.Z.A.F. Corsair disappeared on a training flight from Ardmore to Christchurch on November 11, 1944.

Since then there have been a number of reported sightings of the aircraft, but none have been officially confirmed.

An R.N.Z.A.F. Iroquois on a training flight was used to search for the missing aircraft last year, and the latest search is also being done as part of training. Six servicemen from the R.N.Z.A.F. base, Woodbourne, will be dropped by helicopter into an area north of Berlins and will search through rugged terrain for the wreckage before being lifted out by helicopter again.

This search, which will be held between December 10 and 17, is an adventurous training exercise for the servicemen, who will be led by an experienced mountaineer.

PRESS, 22 NOVEMBER 1984

[frankv]

I'm completely new to the search for NZ5517, but was intrigued by it after reading a post on Facebook, so read up on it from the lost aircraft.com site. There was a mention of an object visible on Google Earth until GE changed their photo layer.

So, first of all, it's nowadays possible in GE to go back in time and see older images. In GE there are several historical images for the search area, although none of them is really old enough to be very useful.

Secondly, LINZ provides copies of aerial photos which may have better resolution (0.3m) than GE. However, GE does use aerial photos for its data, so you might not gain anything. Anyway, I downloaded the West Coast photos and identified the correct photo for the 525447 inch-to-mile grid reference. This appears to be different from the GE photos.

I've had a look at the historical GE images and the LINZ image, at what I consider (without any real experience) to be likely places (just below ridgetops on the eastern side of the ridges, creekbeds) around that grid reference but I don't really know what I am looking for, so not surprisingly didn't find anything.

I'd like to see all the information and see if I can form some opinion on where NZ5517 might be. If anyone wants more details on how to see older images in Google Earth, I'm happy to write something up. Likewise, if anyone wants the LINZ images, I'll annotate them and share them.

Finally, LINZ also has Lidar scans (1m resolution) of the area. There's some outside chance that some part of the aircraft structure might be intact and visible on that, but probably not... my understanding is that Lidar can't see through the forest canopy. I haven't looked at this at all.

Hopefully this is of use to someone...

[frankv]

An interesting aside... the actual bearing from Westport to Christchurch is 157 true = 140 magnetic in 1944. So Reynolds was out by 20 degrees in the bearing and reciprocal he was using. It's not due to allowance for crosswind since the bearing (120) and reciprocal (120) are exactly 180 degrees apart. It's probably not relevant to the search, and perhaps as good as you could do in a single cockpit in or near cloud, but I find it interesting nevertheless.

[FlyingKiwi]

I'm dubious of Google Earth images supposedly showing missing aircraft, unless it's come down almost intact and recently it's probably not going to resemble an aircraft anymore, and when you're looking specifically for a missing aircraft you'll start to make anything vaguely resembling it fit the picture. I wouldn't be surprised if it would be more likely that someone who actually isn't looking for a missing aeroplane would spot one on Google Earth!