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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 23, 2012 10:29:07 GMT 12
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Post by davidd on Sept 1, 2012 15:39:29 GMT 12
Thought I would add something to this thread, as my subject concerns this squadron, and the facts of this subject are very little known, although mentioned in the Squadron ORB.
Subject is the use by the squadron of three Wellington Mk. IIs (RR Merlin engines) in late 1941/early 1942, at a time when the Mk. ICs (Bristol Pegasus single-row radials) were on the way out, and the Mk. IIIs (Bristol Hercules sleeve valve two-row radials) were taking over. The first two Mk. IIs (serial numbers Z8441 and Z8495) arrived on 75 Sqn 17/11/41 from 12 MU; a third Mk. II (Z8429) arrived on a date unknown. Z8441 departed the sqn on 25/12/41 along with Z8429, for Driffield. The third aircraft (Z8495) departed 8/1/42 for station Lindholme. They were only used on a few operations, the first on 26/11/41, with S/L F J ("Popeye") Lucas & crew aboard Z8495, and the other flight commander (S/L Kitchen & crew) aboard Z8441. On night of 30/11-1/12/41, Z8441 (S/L Kitchen and crew again) on ops to Emden and Hamburg. Final op by the Merlin Wellingtons was on 23-24/12/41, when Z8429 (P/O Sandys and crew) went on a raid to Brest. These seem to be the only operations for the type, which was never considered an outstanding success from some reason. Has any body ever seen a photograph of one of these Merlin-Wellingtons? I know the chances are microscopically thin!
David D
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Post by davidd on Sept 1, 2012 15:50:17 GMT 12
I see on my last post that I made a typing error - date of last op was on 23-24/12/41 (not February). My aplogies for fat fingers. Note, this correction now embodied in above.
David D
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Post by baz62 on Sept 1, 2012 16:58:10 GMT 12
I see on my last post that I made a typing error - date of last op was on 23-24/12/41 (not February). My aplogies for fat fingers. David D You could always use the "Modify" function too (or as well as) David |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 1, 2012 17:55:44 GMT 12
Thanks for that David, I'd certainly not heard about this squadron flying Mk II Wellingtons. Cheers.
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Post by oggie2620 on Sept 17, 2013 21:52:43 GMT 12
Wing Commander E. G. Olson, of New Plymouth, as the new commanding officer, Just a little snippet about Olson he became Station Commander here at RAF Honington where I am based! |
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Post by oggie2620 on Sept 17, 2013 22:07:05 GMT 12
Oh yes two more snippets for you:
1) I visited RAF Scampton last month reference the Heritage Centre. On the way back to the main gate I noticed that there was a Ward Block. Mentioned this to our guide and he said they were all named after people who had been awarded VC's. On querying further it is Sgt James Allen Ward VC. Apparently the block is not in use at the moment but it looks as if it may take on a new life in 2014. I am hoping that this will happen and will let you know more when it (I am being positive) does!
2) I have found that I know the great nephew of Ronnie Soo who was on 75 Sqn at Feltwell . He was killed in 1944. I am going to research his crew etc and that of his brother, Norman, who was also Bomber Command (Martin's father) who survived. The other tidbit is that their other brother was the famous Frank Soo of West Bromwich and England!!! It seems from the pictures on the Feltwell site that Norman was also a good footballer as there is a pic of him with the team at Feltwell! Am hoping that Martin and his family (Dad died in 1989) will come along to a UK Reunion. Yes Glen T I have sent him a copy of the newsletter!
Dee
Dee
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Post by ngatimozart on Sept 17, 2013 22:21:55 GMT 12
Final op by the Merlin Wellingtons was on 23-24/2/41, when Z8429 (P/O Sandys and crew) went on a raid to Brest. These seem to be the only operations for the type, which was never considered an outstanding success from some reason. Has any bbody ever seen a photograph of one of these Merlin-Wellingtons? I know the chances are microscopically thin! David D David I found this on Wikipedia.  This is the url: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vickers_Wellington_Mk2.jpgDescription English: Vickers Wellington Mk.II of No. 104 Squadron, Royal Air Force. 104 Squadron received the Wellington in April 1941. It was part of the RAF Bomber Command until it was moved to the Mediterranean area in April 1942, where it operated until the end of the war. In 1943 it received the Wellington Mk.X, in February 1945 it was re-equipped with the Consolidated Liberator. Date 1941-1942 Source Published British Government photograph. Originally uploaded to DE Wikipedia as de:Bild:Vickers Wellington Mk2.jpg by de:Benutzer:Kernec 7 January 2005. Author British Government. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 17, 2013 23:22:53 GMT 12
I believe David was asking about photos of the specific No. 75 (NZ) Squadron Wellington Mk. II's, (serial numbers Z8441, Z8495 and Z8429). I'd love to see photos of those three turn up too.
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Post by ngatimozart on Sept 18, 2013 2:18:51 GMT 12
I did an image search and there were very few photos of the Mk IIs. I'll try a wider search later on today.From what I undestand only 405 Mk IIs were built.
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Post by davidd on Sept 19, 2013 13:19:04 GMT 12
Big job Ngatimozart! Here's hoping. Incidentally the clearly visible astrohatch in the roof (with the astrodome as an integral part thereof) was where Sgt pilot Ward started his heroic attempt to put out the fire in an engine in 1941, is very prominent in this view, complete with a peeping P/O Prune (although more likely a Sgt!)
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 19, 2013 13:49:17 GMT 12
The Wellington doesn't look quite right with Merlin engines. I wonder if it sounded similar to a Mosquito.
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Post by wwilesco on Oct 6, 2013 23:26:51 GMT 12
This is not really a reply to any post but I'm just trying to find my feet on this website. My father Kenneth Wiles was in 75NZ squadron although a Brit. He was a wireless operator/air gunner in Wellingtons and was on Z8834 when it crashed in December 1941. On the lost bomber website which has now disappeared he was shown as Wilkes in error. He spent 18 months in hospital recovering from his injuries. Like many of those who fought in wars he really didn't talk about it. What he did say about the crash was that only he and the rear gunner survived their injuries and the rear gunner took his life shortly after. Unfortunately he died in April 1987. Hope this proves of some use. Stephen Wiles
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 6, 2013 23:43:24 GMT 12
Welcome to the forum Stephen. That's a very sad story, and sadly not an uncommon one of one or two survivors from a whole crew that crashed.
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Post by errolmartyn on Oct 7, 2013 9:41:58 GMT 12
This is not really a reply to any post but I'm just trying to find my feet on this website. My father Kenneth Wiles was in 75NZ squadron although a Brit. He was a wireless operator/air gunner in Wellingtons and was on Z8834 when it crashed in December 1941. On the lost bomber website which has now disappeared he was shown as Wilkes in error. He spent 18 months in hospital recovering from his injuries. Like many of those who fought in wars he really didn't talk about it. What he did say about the crash was that only he and the rear gunner survived their injuries and the rear gunner took his life shortly after. Unfortunately he died in April 1987. Hope this proves of some use. Stephen Wiles Stephen, From my For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume One: Fates 1915-1942): Tue 23 Dec/Christmas Eve 1941 Bomber Command Raid on Brest, France (by 47 aircraft - 1 lost) 75 (NZ) Squadron, RAF (Feltwell, Norfolk - 3 Group) Wellington IC Z8834 - took off at approximately 1623-1720 and circled the base in poor weather on returning from the raid. At 2347, while awaiting permission to land, Z8834 flew into the ground 2 miles east of Berner’s Heath, about 5 miles SW of Thetford. Five crew were injured, but the captain was killed and is buried at Feltwell. Captain: NZ403936 Flt Sgt Loch Lomond BENTLEY, RNZAF - Age 28. 324hrs. 7th op(?) Bentley was the only fatality. The others in the crew were: Sgt T W Burke, RNZAF (2nd pilot) injured Sgt H Ives, RNZAF (air observer) injured Sgt K L Wiles (WOp) injured Sgt S V Hardman (front gunner) injured Sgt W H Olrod (rear gunner) injured Burke and Ives survived the war, Ives was still serving with the squadron when he was shot down on 2/3 June 1942 and made PoW. Olrod and Hardman appear also to have also survived the war, their names not appearing on the CWGC register. Errol |
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Post by wwilesco on Oct 8, 2013 5:42:39 GMT 12
Thank you. Obviously my father was in error. He was actually Sgt K C Wiles. He survived to fly again but his injuries made it very painful at altitude and he was discharged in Sept 1944. Regarding the crash he said they were circling awaiting landing clearance. They were aware that a shell had gone through one of the fuel tanks but felt they had enough fuel. They were unaware a second shell had gone through the other fuel tank so they ran out of fuel and crashed.
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Post by errolmartyn on Oct 8, 2013 18:48:04 GMT 12
Thank you. Obviously my father was in error. He was actually Sgt K C Wiles. He survived to fly again but his injuries made it very painful at altitude and he was discharged in Sept 1944. Regarding the crash he said they were circling awaiting landing clearance. They were aware that a shell had gone through one of the fuel tanks but felt they had enough fuel. They were unaware a second shell had gone through the other fuel tank so they ran out of fuel and crashed. Stephen, if you would send me your email details via a PM I can send you a scan of a brief summary from the Court of Inquiry that may like to have for your records. Errol |
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Post by wwilesco on Oct 9, 2013 9:41:41 GMT 12
Thanks, e mail address sent by PM. Something I've noticed has prompted a question, although the dates the photo's were taken aren't known none of the photo's of my father had a fern embroidery on them. Was this just for NZ crew?
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Post by wwilesco on Oct 9, 2013 23:40:07 GMT 12
Thanks to Errol for report. Basically it said pilot error. Now I am going to open a can of worms. I realise that an inquiry 6 years after the event and no doubt on a conveyor belt of similar items would be perfunctory but I do feel that an injustice to the pilot may have been made. As I have said previously my father who was on the plane said that it ran out of fuel because of shrapnel/bullets penetrating both of the fuel tanks. I'm sure the family of Flt Sgt Bentley would like to know a more first hand version of events. Of course in a court of law it is only hearsay and I have no intention of starting a "clear the Feltwell one" campaign but I would be interested in any other views, especially as I am not a Kiwi and only the son of a combatant.
Stephen Wiles
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Post by oggie2620 on Oct 11, 2013 23:07:53 GMT 12
Hi Stephen Have you been in touch with the UK Sqn Assn? If not if you pm me I will happily give the contact details for them  We are having our annual winter reunion and commemoration in November and if you and your family would like to attend I am sure you would be welcome. I can also send you the latest newsletter if you would like whether you do want to do that or not Dee |
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We are having our annual winter reunion and commemoration in November and if you and your family would like to attend I am sure you would be welcome. I can also send you the latest newsletter if you would like whether you do want to do that or not 