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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 27, 2009 17:17:12 GMT 12
The Pom's don't seem to class their BBMF Hurricane as a replica, despite crashing and burning and being almost unrecognisable before rebuild.
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Post by baz62 on Aug 29, 2009 11:16:13 GMT 12
The Pom's don't seem to class their BBMF Hurricane as a replica, despite crashing and burning and being almost unrecognisable before rebuild. Ah HA! Good point! Maybe its Mosquito envy lol. ;D |
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fb6
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 96
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Post by fb6 on Sept 3, 2009 21:42:42 GMT 12
Awesome Update! Many thanks! -I'm quite shocked that anyone could possibly construe Glyn & Avspecs Mosquito work as being 'replicas!'...Indeed, perhaps this IS envy... The oppurtunity to rebuild Mosquitos has been there for years; -the English, Canadians @ the Aussies all made them during the War...There are 30 odd survivors worldwide...and we have 6 of them! -Also, myself being a ''Mosquito-buff'', I recall somewhere in my reading, [perhaps Philip Birtles,] that Mosquitos were initially built to last 200 hours... Britain being deeply entrenched in War back then, if it wasn't for Wilfred Freeman getting in behind De Havilland's Mosquito idea with the Air Ministry etc, to build this 'wooden' aircraft during a time of high metal demand, I guess it's life-expectancy in a 'war-envelope' probably wasn't that high... Amazing just how resiliant they were in wartime, and how they endured, considering the glues they had back then. They really are quite unique compared to virtually every other aircraft, I think only the Don airliner DH built before the war was built in a similar fashion... Personally, I think rebuilding the Mosquito to fly to be a fantastic task of Craftsmanship and Vision, not at all like metal-skinned aircraft. Especial credit to Avspecs- Glyn Powell's vision to rebuild them is a real Tribute- He was featured on TV1 Close-up with WW2 Mossie pilot Bill Barnett earlier this week... www.tvnz.co.nz/close-up/mosquito-bomber-builder-bitten-2961374Cheers Ross |
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Post by shorty on Sept 3, 2009 21:50:28 GMT 12
The DH Albatross was built on similar principles, now that is an elegant looking aircraft!
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fb6
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 96
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Post by fb6 on Sept 4, 2009 0:49:44 GMT 12
Yep, that's the one I was thinking of!...[dunno where I got 'Don' from...!] -I don't think there's any of them left today, is there? They had a twin boom tail and a nice curvaceous shape...twin engined, Gypsy's I think, it was a little under-powered perhaps...?
Cheers
Ross
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Post by shorty on Sept 4, 2009 12:13:46 GMT 12
They were 4 engined (twin fins not booms) and spent too much time parked outside due to wartime pressures. British weather and wooden aircraft were not a happy combination.
I always thought the "Don" was one of De Havs less pretty aircraft.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 18:52:30 GMT 12
Dunno, I quite like the Don, always longed for a model of it. So different to the other DH machines.
Imagine a new-build Albatross! There are at least two groups set up to build a replica HP.42, so why not?
Does anyone want to hazard a guess as to when KA114 will fly? Debut at Omaka 2011 or Oshkosh 2010?
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Post by TriangleP on Sept 7, 2009 5:23:43 GMT 12
Does anyone want to hazard a guess as to when KA114 will fly?Debut at Omaka 2011 or Oshkosh 2010? Judging by completeness of KA114, it still appears to my eyes as requiring a siginificant amount of work. Its been noted on this site as being in a slow work period too. Bob Jens' Mosquito VR796/CF-HML being restored by Victoria Air Maintenance in B.C., Canada has, I believe, the edge in completeness and may be the first in the air, barring major complications and passing significant milestones. However, the VAM website does not reveal what systems are being replaced beyond what we see in the photos. Anyone know more about this? The Mosquito Page site notes that VR796 is intended to be prepared for March 2010 flight. Anyone heard different? Still, I check AvSpecs website regularly for updates, as this is a spectacular project. vicair.net/projects/mosquito/june-july-2009www.mossie.org/Mosquito_loc.htm |
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Post by stu on Sept 7, 2009 10:30:20 GMT 12
Just been reading the latest Aeroplane Monthly where there is an article about the B35 Mosquito in Canada VR796/CF-HML being restored to fly and its move to Vancouver Island and Victoria Air Maintenance at Vancouver Airport. I was gobsmacked when the author stated and I quote: "......what will be the only airworthy original Mosquito in the world (that gallant New Zealand effort on FB26 KA114, when completed, will be largely a replica).( I note that the same issue also has Masterton mysteriously moving to the South Island  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 7, 2009 10:45:51 GMT 12
The Bob Jens aircraft appears to be using its original glue rather than new technology "replica" glue, so I wonder how long it will actually fly for before eventually falling apart.
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Post by TriangleP on Sept 8, 2009 4:46:15 GMT 12
The Bob Jens aircraft appears to be using its original glue rather than new technology "replica" glue, so I wonder how long it will actually fly for before eventually falling apart. Exactly. It makes one wonder if it's worth the potential loss of man and machine. Glues can become brittle with age and exposure. I read on another forum that the airframe was given a very thorough examination using non-invasive diagnostic machines before moving forward to restoration for flying. It was not clear from the post what techniques or machines were employed to determine the integrity of the wood structure however. It would be a very interesting post to read if someone knows what VAM employed. There is also a post on WIX concerning approved U.S. Federal Aviation Administration/Civil Aviation Safey Authority requirements for wood glues on wood structure aircraft, which direectly affects KA114 flying in the U.S. in Jerry Yagen's museum. If I read the reports here correctly, the U.S. authority accepts the use of industry accepted glues if specific conditions are met. Suprising, but there seems to be some gray area on the interpretation here. I'm sure Glyn and Jerry knew all of this backwards and forwards before constructing! Curious to know what glue Glyn has used. warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31728 |
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Post by Bruce on Sept 8, 2009 9:17:07 GMT 12
I have a friend who helped build the Wing at Drury, he says that it uses modern, approved epoxies. There are 2 types used depending on the components. West System was used around the fuselage but the wings mainly used Araldite, primarily because KA114 is likely to be repainted in camouflage rather than silver, and the Araldite better handles the higher temperatures that will produce.
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Post by TriangleP on Sept 8, 2009 11:53:42 GMT 12
Bruce,
Thanks for your inside information, I linked your post to the WIX "glue" post.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 8, 2009 12:14:09 GMT 12
I wasn't necessarily saying the aircraft will break up in flight and crash, god forbid. I was meaning that with the old glue and the new stresses put onto the airframe after such a long time sitting, surely flying it will excellerate it's breakdown and eventual deterioration, and it won't remain airworthy as long as an airframe with modern glues and new wood. They'd surely have to begin their non-invasive testing after every flight to ensure the next flight is safe, wouldn't they?
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fb6
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 96
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Post by fb6 on Sept 15, 2009 0:14:49 GMT 12
I really can't understand why, in the effort to be 'original', the Jen's Mossie would be done in the very same type of glue that WAS the one 'downfall' of the Mosquito;- it's limited structural longetivity-
Surely, by building the Mosquito again as Glyn is, in the original construction technique & materials, but using superior glues to overcome that very problem [which did cost a lot of aircrew's lives], it would simply be professional common-sense, wouldn't it...?!
Even though De Havilland were pretty ahead at that time with the 'glue technology', as they also went-on to develop the Redux glue to get wood and metal to stick together in their later Hornet design, it's really all about the Flight Safety Factor today...
Also the fact that even Germany tried to build their 'Own Moskito' [Focke Wulf Ta-154] and it failed because of the glues- If someone were to build one of those again from scratch exactly the same way, but using today's glues, would they call that a replica too..?
Like seeing a Hornet again, that would be REAL rare!!
Getting Insurance Cover for the Jen's Mosquito would be a real questionable undertaking now then, don't you think...??
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Post by Bruce on Sept 15, 2009 9:44:43 GMT 12
The original glues actually arent too bad, providing the aircraft has been stored correctly, and the humidity and UV levels have been controlled. I was looking at some 1928 Travel Air wings over the weekend and visually the glue joints look pretty solid. I'm not sure what the background on Bob Jens' machine is, but I understand it wasnt bowled about and left outside for decades like the NZ project machines were. Bobs aircraft has not had to be "re-glued" with original spec glues - its is an original airframe. The problem is, it is very difficult to gauge glue strength without destroying the structure - which would lead me to have more confidence in the structural integrity and continued long - life of the NZ aircraft.
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Post by Dave.K on Sept 15, 2009 20:36:41 GMT 12
I do know of a tiger that flew in for a C Of A, and when the fabric on a wing was opened up some of the rib gussets landed on the ground.
I still think a properly built wooden aircraft is stronger than a riveted one.
All the joints are spliced together
they are glued all the way, rivets are only every inch.
Wood dosen't remember stress.
and they don't grow alluminium trees.
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2009 12:08:29 GMT 12
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Post by stu on Oct 24, 2009 22:06:48 GMT 12
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