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Post by corsair67 on Aug 26, 2009 16:31:41 GMT 12
I can't imagine that'll be the case, Dave. If NZ got into strife, I don't imagine the Singaporeans will be helping out anytime soon.
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Post by beagle on Aug 26, 2009 18:43:56 GMT 12
The PC-21 has an auto rudder trim system, to give "jet-like" handling. Regarding the tail size - the vertical stab looks like it has quite a high aspect ratio, and would be exposed to large volume of air being pumped aft by that prop. However, on the PC-9 there was a demonstration we used to give the students during effects of controls which showed how easy it was to overpower the hori stab with a large yaw input at low speeds. Standard control blanking stuff, but exacerbated by the blown tail. www.pilatus-aircraft.com/media/Pilatus-PC-21-Fact-Sheet.pdfso you did a 2 year exchange at Pearce then.
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Post by oldnavy on Aug 26, 2009 19:19:28 GMT 12
What's this about a foreign country wanting to base military aircraft in NZ? Isn't that something you guys should think about doing yourself?
But then again, Singapore is a bit crowded, and WA is a bit dry, so somewhere cooler and wetter would be a better place...to conquer! ;D
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Post by phil on Aug 26, 2009 19:27:20 GMT 12
Well they already base their 155mm artillery here.
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Post by nige on Sept 2, 2009 10:18:47 GMT 12
Ok, I know it is only a rumour and of course all sorts of plans and ideas are looked into at higher levels (without ever getting off the ground so to speak, due to various circumstances or lack of financial/political backing etc).
But if the Macchi's were bought, how could a condition be that they remain here, as we won't be the owners anymore? Don't get me wrong, if that's the deal and they stay, well that's fantastic!
But me-thinks, would it be possible to lease said Macchis, thus retaining RNZAF ownership (plus those kiwi roundals!). That way RNZAF still maintain a skillset both maintaining them (a small ground crew team), plus a handful of qualified training pilots.
That way, in the near future, should the Asia-Pacific region experience conflict (after all the dynamics are changing with the emerging new powers etc), the RNZAF has a most basic level of capability that can be expanded.
Unlike WW2 where young kiwis learnt to fly basic mechanical aircraft rather quickly, modern warfare wouldn't allow such a luxury and accessing other air force's aircraft won't be easy either due to their own demands etc.
Also, the RNZAF may bring a bit of cash in training up other Asian airforces (or at least give them the airspece to conduct more advanced training, once they complete their wings course at home etc). Just a thought.
Hmm wonder if several reactivated A4's for advanced/maritime strike training would be a go-er too?
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Post by obiwan27 on Sept 2, 2009 11:04:04 GMT 12
But me-thinks, would it be possible to lease said Macchis, thus retaining RNZAF ownership (plus those kiwi roundals!). That way RNZAF still maintain a skillset both maintaining them (a small ground crew team), plus a handful of qualified training pilots. That way, in the near future, should the Asia-Pacific region experience conflict (after all the dynamics are changing with the emerging new powers etc), the RNZAF has a most basic level of capability that can be expanded. Also, the RNZAF may bring a bit of cash in training up other Asian airforces (or at least give them the airspece to conduct more advanced training, once they complete their wings course at home etc). Just a thought. Hmm wonder if several reactivated A4's for advanced/maritime strike training would be a go-er too? Top ideas, you get my vote as Minister of Defence ;D
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Post by skyhawkdon on Sept 2, 2009 12:05:53 GMT 12
I would think our Macchi's would be too old for Singapore's advanced jet training needs (Viper supportability issues aside). They will want a lot more advanced Avionics and weapons systems than our 17 year old Macchis have.
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Post by Naki on Sept 2, 2009 13:05:20 GMT 12
Ill say ..it would almost be a step down from the PC-21
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Post by Barnsey on Sept 2, 2009 14:13:14 GMT 12
MB-339FD mid life update? Could provide worthy training support for the NZDF as well..... Still looks like a Macchi! Same HUD, Remote Display Units, comms as "ours"
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Post by oldnavy on Sept 2, 2009 20:34:56 GMT 12
Come on guys! RSAF will want something seriously new, the bottom of the wish list will be a later derivative of the Hawk Mk 128 (RAF new LIFT) and the top will be something fancy and supersonic.
Having said that, if you want jet noise over NZ, you should absolutely do it yourselves.
Seriously, nobody will want to pay NZ to do their training, especially if NZ doesn't do it for their own benefit. Everybody has the best air force (especially Singapore) in the world and all believe they have unique abilities. On making money out of maintenance, check carefully who actually maintains the fleet of PC21s in Pearce.
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Post by Naki on Sept 2, 2009 20:57:36 GMT 12
As I said earlier in the thread ..the RSAF have two aircraft left in their comp to replace the Skyhawk as an advance trainer ..the KAI T-50 and Aermacchi M-346 .. the Hawk has been eliminated
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Post by flycookie on Sept 3, 2009 10:48:06 GMT 12
Is the SEATO treaty organisation still in existence these days? Nope. From memory, it was wound up in the mid-70s.
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Post by phil on Sept 3, 2009 11:53:13 GMT 12
We have the FPDA now.
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Post by oldnavy on Sept 4, 2009 10:08:28 GMT 12
From Naki, thanks.
That sounds a fairly firm "NO" to the question about whether the RSAF might be interested in old model hardly used but stored for a long time MB339s.
But seriously...I can't imagine how any Kiwi could be happy listening to the roar of jets going overhead knowing they can only be foreign, because you don't have any.
My question remains, would it be sensible for a country with a population of 4 million, a certain GDP and loads of space to let a country with a population of 4 million, a larger GDP and no space bring weapons equipped fast jets to town when the former country doesn't have any air capability themselves? The brilliance of old stored Skyhawks, RNZAF fighter aces from WW2 and the boys at Wanaka won't be of any use if things change.
I know Singapore is a friendly First World nation with strong peaceful ties to NZ. That doesn't alter the following: 1. RSAF would bring in all their own support so NZ industry will have limited benefit 2. RSAF would be the most powerful unit in NZ upon which NZ could place no real physical constraint.
NZ would be better off talking more closely to Australia, manning up the RNZAF (and the nation) a bit, putting some proportionally appropriate money in (what they can afford) and contributing to an RAAF/RNZAF joint force of F35s to get some level of air capability in country. e.g. a wholly or partially manned Kiwi F35 unit based in NZ. Then would be the right time to talk to the Singapore friends and invite them down for some permanent training bases.
My challenge to you guys, because you all seem very aviation minded and motivated, is take ownership of a rumour which started here, today. Now build the dream...according to the Oz press you have about 8 years before the F35s start arriving! ;D
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Post by corsair67 on Sept 4, 2009 13:56:50 GMT 12
So long as you don't litter, or chew chewing gum.......... ;D
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Post by yogi on Sept 7, 2009 20:09:09 GMT 12
haha. oh dear....
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Post by beagle on Sept 7, 2009 21:09:30 GMT 12
The F-16 is one aircraft that has evolved amazingly from the first Lightweight Fighter designed early models. You certainly wouldn't call the Block 52s attractive looking aircraft though. I reckon this thing looks bloody wonderful. ready and waiting for a fight. I wonder if we had got our, could we have modified ours to take conformals or would there be the need for structial strengthening in certain areas during construction to take then, apart from plumbing which would have been an easy mod. so nobody knows if this could have been done
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