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Post by delticman on Dec 9, 2012 13:10:43 GMT 12
This aircraft now appears to be N43FG registered on 20 Jun 12 with a c/n of BA45FG. Sounds odd but may be the reason it's made up of three different aircraft.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 15:56:22 GMT 12
Intriguing. Thanks for the update ;-)
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setter1
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 85
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Post by setter1 on Dec 11, 2012 15:12:45 GMT 12
Well dont all get too cocky- The P40 has been modified from a Merlin engined example to a common as muck P40E and as such is a travisty almost in the same way that the Corsair would have looked wrong. In my view a much better plan would have been to have had the P40 restored to fly and then flogged it to buy a genuine RNZAF P40E for display and pocket a few bucks along the way.
Kind regards
John
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 11, 2012 16:50:29 GMT 12
Hang on John, from what I have been told by people involved the P-40 was a crashed wreck that every usable P-40F part from was removed from the aircraft to be combined with the remains of the other wreck, which was recovered at that same time, and which is now flying in Australia as Judy Pay's genuine P-40F.
The Air Force Museum gave up having flyable aircraft a very long time ago when the Historic Flight switched from their care to the Central Flying School's inventory, so wasting their meagre funding and limited skilled team on restoring an aircraft to flyable condition that they would never have on display themselves and would hopefully sell on the mere offchance they could buy a genuine RNZAF example was never going to happen imho.
Considering that of the seven remaining RNZAF P-40's, two are flying in Australia, one is going to fly again in the USA soon, one flies here, one is in an Auckland Museum and the other two are major basket case wrecks in a private collection, only the latter two would be candidates and that would mean two full restorations instead of one. So it would never happen. Very soon however the RNZAF Musuem will have a perfectly restored P-40E to display, and there are still two flying P-40F's in the world.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 12, 2012 7:02:16 GMT 12
The RNZAF Museum P-40F was a basket case when received. Very little of that original aircraft is in the restored P-40E that you can see on the museum's restoration tour today. It was just too badly damaged and corroded.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 12, 2012 8:36:35 GMT 12
By the way, when I said "limited skilled team" above, I meant limited in numbers, they are highly skilled individuals. Sorry if that read wrong!!
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Post by baz62 on Dec 12, 2012 11:48:43 GMT 12
The RNZAF Museum P-40F was a basket case when received. Very little of that original aircraft is in the restored P-40E that you can see on the museum's restoration tour today. It was just too badly damaged and corroded. I thought the fuselage was partly restored in Australia, oh I see as in not a lot of the original in that restored state. Yep they took the correct route and have an outstanding example thats nearly ready to display. |
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setter1
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 85
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Post by setter1 on Dec 15, 2012 16:28:20 GMT 12
Well Dave et al
One of the P40Fs flying is not a P40F its an Australian E model converted to look like an F which isnt hard as an F is an E with a Merlin engine - so no its ID is wrong ( and therin lies a problem as people are already saying its an F with a different ID - the airframe was already largely restored as an E and before the plan to finish it as an F started).
I have no problem with the RNZAF doing what it has done but it would have been easier to sell the F to someone who wanted the genuine provinance as it would be worth a lot to have the original F provinance. The problem I do have is if we all forget in the future that the RNZAF example is an F converted/restored to an E and it takes on a fictious ID as an E.
I did see the wrecks in Tyabb many years ago and yes they were crap but then most flying P40s were crap at one stage
John
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Post by agalbraith on Dec 15, 2012 21:13:05 GMT 12
Well I have to agree with John, that 'F' is a particularly special airframe with wartime history.
Baz is right, the fuse was partially rebuilt in Australia before coming here. I would have loved to see the museum get a genuine RNZAF example (I understand one actually was offered as a swap in the early days of the aquisition....John Chambers one???). Then we would have a genuine RNZAF machine in the museum that has a connection with the Air Force and the public whos grandfathers actually flew that particular bird. Seemed like a win-win to me at the time.
Dont get me wrong, the work they have done is awesome, you cant take that from them. But with the rarity of an 'F' and the value of that in itself, surely it makes more sense to have built it as an 'F' and potentially a rare swap item for the future?
I will probably get shot down for this view, but that is fine...it is my view, right or wrong for 0.02c
Go on....put a Merlin in it and get Judy to make up a new set of cowls and radiator...80), heh
Cheers
Anthony
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Post by baz62 on Dec 16, 2012 14:19:28 GMT 12
Well I have to agree with John, that 'F' is a particularly special airframe with wartime history. Baz is right, the fuse was partially rebuilt in Australia before coming here. I would have loved to see the museum get a genuine RNZAF example (I understand one actually was offered as a swap in the early days of the aquisition....John Chambers one???). Then we would have a genuine RNZAF machine in the museum that has a connection with the Air Force and the public whos grandfathers actually flew that particular bird. Seemed like a win-win to me at the time. Dont get me wrong, the work they have done is awesome, you cant take that from them. But with the rarity of an 'F' and the value of that in itself, surely it makes more sense to have built it as an 'F' and potentially a rare swap item for the future? I will probably get shot down for this view, but that is fine...it is my view, right or wrong for 0.02c Go on....put a Merlin in it and get Judy to make up a new set of cowls and radiator...80), heh Cheers Anthony Tacka Tacka Tacka Tacka job done! Its a Kittyhawk, its an E (now) and nearly finished so hop in your whaaaambulance and toddle off there sunshine. (Its ok mate I still love ya ha ha) ;D ;D ;D |
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setter1
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 85
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Post by setter1 on Dec 16, 2012 15:28:40 GMT 12
Baz
For political correctness its an F and always will be - I have no real issue with it being restored as an E and the museum has done a magnificant job of restoring it - Most of the metalwork is replaced etc but its identity and provenance is F model and as such should be recorded that way - most people wont care but some do. If we lose the history and timeline of such things it all becomes a farce and we might as well have plastic replicas of everything.
Anyway Kiwi friends I am not meaning to cause a rukus or upset anybody its a great achievement and a great job
Kind regards
John
History
Delivered to the USAAC as 41-14205 in 1941 – served in the Pacific , the aircraft force landed at Errumango Island , Vauatu on Dec 20th 1942. The aircraft was stripped of all useful items and abandoned. The wreck was rediscovered and recovered by Robert Grienert and Martin Mednis of Sydney NSW in November 1989 and shipped to Australia along with a similar aircraft 41-14112 which crashed at the same time. Following recovery to Australia the machine passed into the hands of well known Warbird personality Ian Whitney and was then purchased by Graham Hosking of Tyabb Victoria. Graham then swapped the P40 for a Corsair F4U-5NL which is currently under airworthy restoration restoration for him in Darwin. The RNZAF Museum are restoring the aircraft with an Alison engine in effect turning it into a P40E model and it was recently assembled for final completion and will be displayed at Wigram. This is a very rare machine indeed being one of only 2 or 3 P40F Merlin engined machines left in the world
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Post by baz62 on Dec 17, 2012 12:02:42 GMT 12
Baz For political correctness its an F and always will be - I have no real issue with it being restored as an E and the museum has done a magnificant job of restoring it - Most of the metalwork is replaced etc but its identity and provenance is F model and as such should be recorded that way - most people wont care but some do. If we lose the history and timeline of such things it all becomes a farce and we might as well have plastic replicas of everything. Anyway Kiwi friends I am not meaning to cause a rukus or upset anybody its a great achievement and a great job Kind regards John Hey John no worries, that was actually aimed at my fellow Auster rebuilding mate Anthony (agalbraith) as we like to make fun of each other when the opportunity arises! ;D I do agree the P40's true identity should be displayed with the aircraft as I think it does now. They have done this with the Avenger as it is painted as NZ2521 but is in fact NZ2504 with a board showing her true identity and history. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 17, 2012 18:57:33 GMT 12
How about sticking some RNZAF P-40E dataplates on it, and sending the F-model ones to TFC then? That would make everyone happy surely? ;D
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Post by sputnik767 on Dec 18, 2012 5:45:53 GMT 12
How about sticking some RNZAF P-40E dataplates on it, and sending the F-model ones to TFC then? That would make everyone happy surely? ;D Hear hear...logical and simple....... |
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Post by craig on Dec 18, 2012 6:31:33 GMT 12
Every aircraft has a history and (in my opinion) it should be recorded as accurately as possible. Otherwise might as well just start making new ones.
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Post by robkyles on Jan 13, 2013 7:05:10 GMT 12
Does any one know anything further about Corsair NZ5612's fate? This is the aircraft my father flew back from Jacquinot Bay to NZ via Norfolk Island at the end of the war...
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Post by rsmalec52 on Oct 5, 2013 10:21:56 GMT 12
This airplane is very close to making its first post restoration flight hopefully within the next month or so.
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Post by baz62 on Oct 5, 2013 15:30:33 GMT 12
Bet it's not in RNZAF markings!
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Post by agalbraith on Oct 5, 2013 21:02:31 GMT 12
Be great to see some info on her if it is at all possible.
Cheers
Anthony
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kiwiwreckdiver
Squadron Leader
Still military and aviation history mad
Posts: 123
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Post by kiwiwreckdiver on Oct 10, 2013 23:33:00 GMT 12
I think Wigram museum needs to get into a Hurc fly up into the pacifc stop off at New Britain (RNZAF Ventura) and Bouganville (RNZAF Corsair)pack it all up and send them home
That would fill a gap in their Pacific war hall and save some of the last complete ExRNZAF examples out there..
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