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Post by komata on Nov 4, 2013 5:11:06 GMT 12
Dave
Thanks for your reply and for the additional questions:
FWIW, my father was at RNZAF Rukuhia when the aircraft came back from the islands', demobbing in late 1946. In 1947 he was in Britain.
It appears that the 'rifle-butt' treatment meted out to these machines was intended to leave the 'important machinery' (the 'moving bits' such as engines etc.) intact, but to make sure that the aircraft couldn't be started from inside the cockpit by 'unauthorised personnel'. With large numbers of potentially-dangerous aircraft literally 'lying around', this was presumably considered to be a reasonable action by 'those in charge'. Presumably too, if the aircraft were to be returned to service, replacing instrument panels would have been a 'relatively' easy matter.
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Post by komata on Nov 3, 2013 19:41:59 GMT 12
Dave:
Re: '...Keeping the stored aircraft in good condition'.
I fear not. My late father was stationed at RNZAF Rukuhia when the aircraft returned from the islands and told me several times throughout the years that he and others were told to go through the assembled aircraft (both bombers and fighters)shortly after they had reached their final standpoint and to put a rifle-but through the instruments, 'to immobilise them as they were of no further use. The Yanks didn't want them back and the government couldn't afford to buy them'. Orders being orders, they did as they were told, albeit reluctantly. 'It seemed a real shame to have to wreck perfectly good aircraft'.
If this was 'keeping the stored aircraft in good condition', then I have to agree with you.
My father was also involved in the dumping of spare parts down into the Mystery Creek gully.
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Post by komata on Nov 3, 2013 17:49:43 GMT 12
flyernzl
Many thanks for the date (assuming we are referring to the same aircraft). I had actually thought the Mooney's arrival-date was later (for reasons which I won't go into here), but if the info' fits, (long- range tanks, ex-Hawaii, first into NZ, and on arrival resident at the Aero Engine Services facility near the old RNZAF /James Aviation Hangar) then them's the actual facts. Again, thanks.
On that basis therefore, can anyone tell me the identity of 'my' mystery P-40; the completely-intact one I saw at Rukuhia on 21 January 1964?
In respect of the aircraft-type that were used in Guy Robertson's 'escapades', I had not previously heard about his 'use' of a Corsair for the purpose, so again, thanks.
Photo's of any of these aircraft anyone?
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Post by komata on Nov 2, 2013 16:59:43 GMT 12
Thanks Dave, and if someone can please provide the date that a Mooney single-engined aircraft (M-22 Mustang?) arrived in New Zealand, specifically to Rukuhia from Hawaii (the first of the type here I understand) we will have the exact date to which I have been referring.
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Post by komata on Nov 2, 2013 8:07:11 GMT 12
Grrrr 'Computers'!!
Sorry Dave, lost half my post due to a computer malfunction...
Given the time when I saw this machine and its location, I doubt that it was the one you mentioned; especially as it was on the 'gully' side of the access road, rather than towards the runway.
To continue:-
The odd thing about this aircraft was that it appeared to be complete (remembering that when I saw it this just before the new Hamilton terminal was opened), and the viewing-distance would have been 60 feet or so away. The machine had a white spinner, and full set of propeller blades. Aside from this, and that it was physically-complete, the machine also seemed to have RAF-style Green/Brown camouflage!! This intrigued me as although familiar with markings carried on RAF Spitfires and Hurricanes, I had never seen this on any RNZAF aircraft I had encountered. It also didn't have evidence of bar-type markings on the fuselage. Subsequent research indicates that it may have been a P-40E
Unfortunately, the Mooney single-seater from Hawaii proved more interesting and I never went back to inspect the 'Dinosaur' which had appeared from nowhere.
There was however a very curious postscript to this event.
In 1981 I had occasion to speak to Charles Darby about aircraft wrecks, and naturally asked him about the 'mystery' intact P-40 at Rukuhia. It transpired that he WAS familiar with the machine and that he had removed cowling panels from it for an aircraft at MOTAT.
When asked about its eventual fate, he said it had been scrapped!!
As he was at the time 'Mr Aircraft Recovery' and well-known for his work in the Pacific, the inevitable question followed: Why didn't you save it; it was after all complete and verifiably ex-RNZAF? A rather embarrassed and vague answer followed which did nothing to enhance my opinion of either aircraft preservationists in general and Mr. Darby in particular.
Can anyone identify this particular aircraft based on what I have written, and, if so, tell me its registration number, when it was scrapped,and by whom. Also, does anyone have a photo of it in its 'complete' mid-1960's state?
Hope this is of interest.
BTW: Apropos the 'taxiing of Kittyhawk's': I have it on very good authority that as a 'party-piece' Guy Robertson (Robertson Air Services) and by way of introducing himself to his new pilots, used to wander over to 'Larsen's, find a P-40 with fuel still in its tanks and after getting it going, make a few high-speed runs up and down the grass runway. I never saw it myself, and haven't seen this mentioned anywhere before (though might have missed it on this forum).
Does anyone have any photos of these 'impromptu' aircraft 'movements'? If so, can they share them with us?
Thanks.
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Post by komata on Nov 2, 2013 7:14:01 GMT 12
Wasn't there a black and white Whites Aviation Magazine photograph of this aircraft en-route to Auckland? From memory it was towed with wings folded along State Highway 1. Perhaps someone can unearth a copy for us?
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Post by komata on Nov 1, 2013 19:38:43 GMT 12
Dave Not sure about the 'Ventura bits etc being buried, UT, your mention of the runway extention jogged a memory, which might be of interest:
Not sure of the exact date (1967?) but on the day that the first Mooney single-engined aircraft arrived in NZ, having flown from Hawaii, I biked over to the old James Aviation hangar at Rukuhia to see it land, and closely inspect this new arrival.
My path took me along what is now the access road to airport, although at that time it was unsealed and unpleasant to bike over. BTW, before making the trip I had been warned that if those on duty at the control tower saw me I would be 'in BIG trouble'. I made the journey any; they didn't and I wasn't!
While negotiating the potholes I glanced to my right (towards Mystery Creek), and to my amazement saw a COMPLETE Kittyhawk, SITTING ON ITS FULLy-WHEELED -UNDERCARRIAGE!!
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Post by komata on Nov 1, 2013 19:02:21 GMT 12
I've just come across this thread and, although it has been 'dormant' for a while, thought the membership might find the following of interest:
Late in 1964 (and at intermediate/'Middle' School BTW) I wrote a letter to Mr. Asplin asking how much it would cost to purchase a 'clear-vision', long-fuselage Curtis Kittyhawk (P40N-25, I believe), sans engine. In January 1965 I received a very nice letter back from the gentleman advising me that I could have said aircraft for the sum of sixty-six Pounds ($2,500 in 2013 money). As a very 'broke' teen, this was an absolute impossibility,while my Father, I subsequently learnt, would have had none of it; he'd serviced Kitty's in the RNZAF, and having a 'heap of junk' sitting on the property in reminder of what was apparently not a happy time, would have been one step too far on my part...
The price was so far out of my league that I had to write back and regretfully decline (after all I had only ever seen two One Pound notes, and sixty-six was unimagined wealth) so, no Kitty' for Komata.
One can but wish that things had been a little different......
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Post by komata on Sept 28, 2013 18:08:18 GMT 12
(Note: Before I found this thread I posted a similar enquiry about this aircraft on the 'Silver Corsairs' thread')
Although this thread has not ben active for a while, I am hopeful that someone might have found an answer in the intervening time-period.
My son has recently (2013) given me a post-war photo of this self-same aircraft, ostensibly taken at Rukuhia and in the same location. It would however seem to have been taken at an earlier time than the image which originally prompted this thread, as the nose is obscured by a rather tatty engine cover (which IMHO is in itself an unusual thing to find on a supposedly 'withdrawn' aircraft)
The machine has the faded blue scheme that the type acquired as a result of its Pacific service, and retains its narrow FF-type markings on the fin.
HOWEVER, its national markings (at least on the fuselage)appear to be of RAF Type C1!! If it is not RAF C.1, then nearest I can find, after checking Warren Russell's book on Corsair Camouflage and markings, would be RNZAF type R-10y. There are no sidebars visible in the vicinity of the roundel. The under-wing marking (Starboard only) is unfortunately obscured, but it also doesn't seem to have the 'side bars' that I would have expected, although as thee wing area is in shadow, this may not in fact be correct. There is also a vertical white 'step-indicator stripe' below the cockpit.
As this seems to be an unusual marking for the type to have carried in RNZAF service, I have carefully checked W. Russell's book, but can find no indication of any NZ-based Corsairs carrying C.1 roundels, the nearest being NZ5632 which was in Japan when it had C.1's put in place. As has already been noted, it did not return to New Zealand.
There are no evident unit markings, and the area around the tailplane is either obscured in shadow or has been deliberately over-sprayed to obscure the individual aircraft number. There are no numbers evident on the fin or rudder, and with the nose obscured by the engine cover, no way of establishing if any more details might exist in that area. An odd detail is that there is no radio mast on the fuselage behind the cockpit canopy.
Over-all, it does seem to be a somewhat confused aircraft.
I have not found copies of 'my' photograph in any books on the RNZAF, and before seeing the photograph which prompted this thread believed that my photograph was the only one of this particular machine.
We now know that it is aircraft '23' but are we any closer to identifying it specifically?
Thanks in advance.
Komata
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Post by komata on Sept 25, 2013 15:44:38 GMT 12
I'm a 'newbie' to the forum, so hope that I've posted this in the right place (as it appeared to be discussing 'post-war' RNZAF Corsair markings). If not, please move this enquiry to the appropriate section.
My son has recently given me a post-war photo of a Corsair ostensibly taken at Rukuhia. The machine has the faded blue scheme that the type acquired as a result of its Pacific service, and retains its narrow FF-type markings on the fin.
HOWEVER, its national markings (at least on the fuselage)appear to be of RAF Type C1!! If it is not RAF C.1, then nearest I can find, after checking Warren Russell's book on Corsair Camouflage and markings, would be RNZAF type R-10y. There are no sidebars visible in the vicinity of the roundel. The under-wing marking (Starboard only) is unfortunately obscured, but it also doesn't seem to have the 'side bars' that I would have expected. There is also a vertical white 'step-indicator stripe' below the cockpit.
As this seems to be an unusual marking for the type to have carried in RNZAF service, I have carefully checked W. Russell's book, but can find no indication of any NZ-based Corsairs carrying C.1 roundels, the nearest being NZ5632 which was in Japan when it had C.1's put in place.
Unfortunately the aircraft number is obscured by a rather tatty engine cover (which IMHO is in itself an unusual thing to find on a supposedly 'withdrawn' aircraft), there are no evident unit markings, and the area around the tailplane is obscured in shadow. There are no numbers evident on the fin or rudder. An odd detail is that there is no radio mast on the fuselage behind the cockpit canopy. It does seem to be a somewhat confused aircraft.
I have not found copies of this photograph in any books on the RNZAF, but given the fact that the type's NZ-service is well-illustrated and documented, (and that there can't be too many photos of one with an engine-cover still in place) no doubt it is well known to the membership. Should this be the case, identification of the aircraft would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Komata
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