An extra PV-1 Ventura for the RNZAF

[Dave Homewood]

I'm currently reading Geoffrey Ellis's excellent book "Tool Box On The Wing" and on pages 203-204 he says that Andy Chandler, who was an engineering officer on an RNZAF Ventura Squadron at Los Negros in 1945, asked the Americans for so many spare parts they eventually gave in and presented him with a complete aircraft (minus engines) for him to pick over for spares.

Ellis says it "thereby hangs a tale that caused problems when we started to clear our aircraft for the return home."

I'll bet it did. An extra aircraft not on the iventory. Haha

I wonder if it did get ferried to NZ or whether it was left there. He doesn't elaborate.

[Dave Homewood]

To answer my own question - further on in the book Geoffrey Ellis says after the war had finished and all the RNZAF units were pulling out and heading home, he accompanied Air Commodore Geoffrey Roberts (AOC RNZAF in Pacific) on a tour of all the bases they'd used to ensure the RNZAF had left them tidy.

When they arrived at Los Negros, Roberts spied the lone Ventura still sitting there on the strip and went nuts. When Ellis explained the situation to him, that it wasn't an RNZAF example left behind, but in fact one gifted to the squadron by the Yanks, he calmed down, but was still annoyed the squadron hadn't disposed of it. There were still Americans based at Los Negros so Roberts arrnaged for one of them to simply buldoze it off the strip and into the jungle on the edge, no questions asked.

Wow, a practically brand new Ventura, pushed into the jungle right beside the strip and left - I wonder if it is still there. Worth chasing up Setter??

[turboNZ]

you'd be beside yourself if you saw that with your own eyes, Dave ;D

Better than s3x, ay ??

[A4k]

...And yet another?

I knew a man called Doug Greenfield while a member of No.49 (kapiti) ATC sqn. He had been an Aircraft mechanic in the RNZAF servicing Corsairs in the Pacific.
He once told us how he saw the Americans scrapping a whole load of Venturas. They were about to take to the next one on the line, so he apparently ran up to them and said "Hey! What would it take to stop you from scrapping that aircraft?" "what can you offer?" they asked. "Well, I can give you a crate of beer right now" he said. "Done" they replied and moved on to the next one...
I don't know where or when this is supposed to have occurred, but interesting if true! (He said it was still there when he left, and he never went back for it.)

[Dave Homewood]

Hmm, interesting. Having a crate of beer in the Pacific warzone would be like having a bar of gold - they were only issued about one bottle a fortnight, sometimes less than that.

[A4k]

I wonder about the authenticity myself, actually, but thought I'd add it out of interest.
He used to tell a few tall ones, which I was often able to spot. Used to really get up his nose...

[Dave Homewood]

Even if he did stop a Ventura from being scrapped I doubt it would be there now.

As far as I'm aware the US forces never did any scrapping themselves, so if it's true it's probably postwar. People like Shorty or Shamus and others here may have a better idea than me though.

[A4k]

I'd be interested to know if it's true, although like you I very much doubt she's there now.
He also told us how he saw the Americans scrapping their Corsairs - he said they loaded them onto barges one behind the other, unpacked a brand new bulldozer from it's crate, and and parked it behind the Corsairs. Took the barge a litle into the bay, started the bulldozer, and fixed the gas pedal. The bulldozer ploughed the aircraft into the sea, went in after them, an the operator returned the barge to shore, where the next load of Corsairs were packed on, a new bulldozer uncrated...you get the picture.
Can anyone confirm or deny that?

[Dave Homewood]

Actually yes the Americans did do a lot of ditching aircraft at sea, as did the Royal Navy, so that might be true. When you said scrapping earlier I thought you meant cutting them up for smelting, like the scrapping here in NZ.

Some of NZ's Avengers were taken out to sea and dropped overbpard. From memory the Royal Navy did that for us. The RNZAF also dropped most of its wartime ammunition into the middle of Cook Strait, I know a guy who was on the immediate postwar team involved in that operation!

So those Corsairs are probably part of a nice coral reef now.

[A4k]

Thanks for that info Dave! The Corsair story sounds feasible then.

Re the Ventura, the way he told it sounded as if he did mean scrapping it, ie breaking it up on the spot. I'd be interested to hear what the guys you mentioned have to say on that.

Cheers, Evan

[Dave Homewood]

I have spoken with another veteran, who's now dead, but he said he was on New Britain at the end of the war and he stood in amazement watching the Aussies push everything from the airfield over the cliff at the end, including new aircraft, brand new tools, hole workshops and vehicles. They couldn't take it home. He said it was heartbreaking, and moreso when he got home after the war and found there to be such a shortage of tools and parts for repairing cars, etc. I think he said that airfield was at Rabaul, but I'm not certain. He said it was about a 200 foot drop over the edge down to rocks and sea below.

[shamus]

Can't help you on this one Dave. I interviewed Andy Chandler many years ago when he had the garage on the North Shore. He never made mention of Venturas but I suppose thats about right,
the main part of the disscussion was Hawker Hinds.

[Dave Homewood]

I think in terms of operational aircraft Andy only worked on fighters, Buffaloes, hurricanes, P-40's and Corsairs, didn't he? Although in the back of my mind I think he may have done a Hudson tour too.

[A4k]

Interesting Dave - I think there may be something in Doug's story, just not sure about the buying it for a crate of beer, if it was as rationed as you say?
I wonder too about the man hours involved in scrapping a Ventura, or atleast rendering it U/S, and if it would have been beneficial to dispose of them in that way, or rather as the Aussies did?

[Dave Homewood]

They may have been just bulldozing the aircraft into a hole or into the jungle or something like that.

Also, perhaps if Doug did have a crate of beer he might have already done some previous wheeling-dealing to get it.

[A4k]

True...shame I didn't ask him more about it at the time.

[tbf25o4]

The question of why were perfectly good aircraft destroyed around the pacific at the end of the war is reasonably straight forward (in most cases)
As soon as the war was declared over, the US bean counters began reconcilling the books. A decree was made to all those who had received lend-lease aircraft that payment was to be made for any aircraft not destroyed in combat/accidents and still in service by the receipient country.
A premium was placed on combat aircraft and any other aircraft that could be converted to civil use.
In New Zealand's case plans were drawn up on how to dispose of Catalinas (towed out to sea and sunk), scrapping of corsairs etc at Rukuhia then claiming them as having been destroyed while in service etc.
However, before this was put into place the US issued a compromise that provided only those aircraft that were required for immediate defence were retained, the remainder were to be destroyed. New Zealand further negotiated agreement that because of the critical shortage of materials to boost our primary agricultural industry aircraft could be stripped for parts etc before being melted down.
I would suggest that the disposal of US aircraft etc in the islands was simply a lack of shipping space to return it to the US and in standard American fashion it was junked to prevent a resurgence of any nationalist uprisings from various factions emerging in the area post war.
A similar situation arose with No.14 Squadron in Japan with the infamous destruction of the Corsairs and all the othere material that could'nt be shipped back to NZ

Paul

[A4k]

Interesting info, Paul. Thanks!

[shorty]

The same applied to jeeps, trucks etc. If they were all left, the local businesses would use them and therefore wouldn't need to buy new ones and thus the factories that produced the items wouldn't have any work and therefore wouldn't be providing employment for all the demobbed service personnel and the same would happen for the big frims smaller suppliers and it would be a domino effect.

[A4k]

Sounds familiar Shorty... That's why a Black and Decker drill will last max. 5 years now instead of the 25 my dad's old one did, and a new TV will crap out after a year or so...

Different methods, but same logic...