Liberator crash at Whenuapai

[Dave Homewood]

I'm confused...

I know I saw the Secret New Zealand documentary about the Whenuapai crash of the Liberator a couple of years ago, but my memory tells me it was a US bomber. I don't have the film on tape to check.

In the Sept 1988 issue of NZ Wings someone has asked the identity of the Liberator that crashed at Whenuapai, and the answer given is it was a "Liberator C.IX (similar to the USN RY-3 with a tall single fin) JT979, was operated by No. 232 (RAF) Squadron and crashed on 1 September 1945."

This site
home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b24_39.html
says the Liberator " Overshot landing at Whenaupai, New Zealand 4/7/45" - a different date.

This site says a Liberator crashed near Whenuapai in 1943!
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/7572/nzdisast.txt

How many Libs crashed there?

[Dave Homewood]

This site on Edna Pearce has details of the 1943 crash which is the one in Secret New Zealand with the Japanese prisoners aboard.
www.dnzb.govt.nz/dnzb/default.asp?Find_Quick.asp?PersonEssay=5P19

So, did an RAF Liberator also crash there 'sometime' in 1945?

Two Liberators and B-17 it seems then?

[Damon]

There was also an article in the NZ Listener in the 1980's about the B-24 that crashed at WP.I thought there was only the two crashes ie. 1 B-17 an B-24. Perhaps Dave, contact NZ listener and see if they can retrieve the article. It was written by a Radio Pacific announcer at the time. Sorry cant remember the name.

[Bruce]

I have just checked the story of the POW aircraft incident in John Kings book on NZ Aircraft Tragedies. Although not infallible John generally is pretty picky about authenticating his details.
according to him the POW aircraft was a Consolidated C-87 Express s/n 41-24027, owned by the USAAF but operated by United Airlines. The C87 was the transport version of the Twin finned B24, as opposed to the C.IX single fin Privateer lineage. The C-87 also crashed on Takeoff, as opposed to a landing overrun. the C-87 crashed on 2 August 1943.
the following web page confirms this serial no C-87 was allocated to United for the NZ- Australia run:
home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b24_26.html (note the same source as the c.IX info)
I would suggest that there was a second accident involving the C.IX in 1945 but due to the secrecy and confusion around the earlier crash, this has got confused over time. I would suggest that a landing over run was less likely to have had any casualties in fact probably none at all, therefore little publicity was given to the later crash.
I Have spoken to a local Waikato Armoured vehicle enthusiast who says that he saw a Liberator wing recovered from a farm near Te awamutu in the 1980s - Where this is now is unknown. he claimed that this was off "the Liberator that crashed at Whenuapai during the war" however reports on the POW crash suggest that the aircraft was completely burnt out and destroyed - so perhaps the wing was off the C.IX?
I'd say at this stage, one B17 crash, 2 liberators....

[flyjoe180]

There was also a documentary about the 9 Jun 1942 B-17 takeoff accident out of Whenuapai. The documentary's name eludes me, but I recall they used the Dakota at Ardmore for some cockpit scenes...

[steve]

Yes Bruce quite correct. I spent some time researching the three crashes some years back and photocopied the B17e crash report I also was shown over Sintons farm where the B17 went down. The owner showed me live ammunication and relecks of the plane stored in his barn and human bone fragments were still been found. Also there is a good account of the crashes in the book "To fly a desk" Geoff Roberts

[sparkiejohn]

I'm vey interested in this subject owing to writing family history for my large extended family. Two Liberator crashes in 1943? I know about the one at 2.30am on 2 August into the mangroves adjacent Herald Island and what now is the Greenhithe bridge where 3 crew died and 2 crew survived also 11 Japanese & Thai women and children died and 14 survived but another died 2 days later. Total crew and passengers were 30 and 15 were killed or died withing 2 days.

I was a student at Glen Eden Primary School in 1943 when one day there was a mighty explosion in the direction of Whenuapai. The building shook and the windows rattled. We were told that a Liberator bomber loaded with bombs had crashed on landing and that 14 of the 16 airmen on board had been killed. My Dad & I went to see the crash site about one week later and saw a large blackened crater with lots of debris for some distance around. This was about 50 metres off the south side of Brigham Road and mid way beween Trigg Road and the south east boundary of the airfield. This was on the fringe of the airfield. The mangrove crash was not the fringe of the airfield.

An Encyclopaedia of New Zealand 1966: Disasters and Mishaps - Air Losses: Pre-war and Wartime Accidents --- the script relates to the Flying Fortress crash at 12.30am on 9 June 1942 then states, "Similarly, when a Liberator bomber a year later came to grief on the fringe of the same airfield, the public were not told until many months later that 14 out of a total compliment of 16 airmen had been killed." This is not the 15 crew and passengers out of 30 killed as per the mangrove crash.

The Administrator refers to Geocities.com historical events and there too it says there were 14 killed in a Liberator bomber crash in 1943. Is this refering perhaps to the mangrove crash where 3 killed were crew and 11 passengers = 14 with another passenger dying a couple of days later? Was there infact this crash and 2 Liberators crashed on landing? One in 1943 with 14 airmen killed and 2 surviving airmen and another less traumatic crash in 1945?

Where were the unexploded bombs from the Flying Fortress detonated? Maybe that is what shook our school in 1942/3 and of which my father and I saw the aftermath and not a Liberator bomber. Then again, that does not explain the 14 airmen out of 16 in a Liberater bomber crash killed of which we don't have a date.

I have located and purchased the TVNZ documentary film of the Whenuapai crashes by Greenstone Pictures produced in 2003.

[richards71]

[shorty]

This is the RAF Liberator that crashed at Whenuapai

[gibbo]

Mar 7, 2007 14:46:29 GMT 12 sparkiejohn said:

I'm vey interested in this subject owing to writing family history for my large extended family. Two Liberator crashes in 1943? I know about the one at 2.30am on 2 August into the mangroves adjacent Herald Island and what now is the Greenhithe bridge where 3 crew died and 2 crew survived also 11 Japanese & Thai women and children died and 14 survived but another died 2 days later. Total crew and passengers were 30 and 15 were killed or died withing 2 days.

I was a student at Glen Eden Primary School in 1943 when one day there was a mighty explosion in the direction of Whenuapai. The building shook and the windows rattled. We were told that a Liberator bomber loaded with bombs had crashed on landing and that 14 of the 16 airmen on board had been killed. My Dad & I went to see the crash site about one week later and saw a large blackened crater with lots of debris for some distance around. This was about 50 metres off the south side of Brigham Road and mid way beween Trigg Road and the south east boundary of the airfield. This was on the fringe of the airfield. The mangrove crash was not the fringe of the airfield.

An Encyclopaedia of New Zealand 1966: Disasters and Mishaps - Air Losses: Pre-war and Wartime Accidents --- the script relates to the Flying Fortress crash at 12.30am on 9 June 1942 then states, "Similarly, when a Liberator bomber a year later came to grief on the fringe of the same airfield, the public were not told until many months later that 14 out of a total compliment of 16 airmen had been killed." This is not the 15 crew and passengers out of 30 killed as per the mangrove crash.

The Administrator refers to Geocities.com historical events and there too it says there were 14 killed in a Liberator bomber crash in 1943. Is this refering perhaps to the mangrove crash where 3 killed were crew and 11 passengers = 14 with another passenger dying a couple of days later? Was there infact this crash and 2 Liberators crashed on landing? One in 1943 with 14 airmen killed and 2 surviving airmen and another less traumatic crash in 1945?

Where were the unexploded bombs from the Flying Fortress detonated? Maybe that is what shook our school in 1942/3 and of which my father and I saw the aftermath and not a Liberator bomber. Then again, that does not explain the 14 airmen out of 16 in a Liberater bomber crash killed of which we don't have a date.

I have located and purchased the TVNZ documentary film of the Whenuapai crashes by Greenstone Pictures produced in 2003.

Viewed the B17 crash report last Friday @ archives... always wondered where it was as my grandad was woken by the explosion(s) - he was sleeping in Pt. Chev.  It was just after midnight so it wasn't that crash you heard from school (ironically also my primary school, but 20 years later than you!).

From what I could tell from comparing old photos to todays google maps is the B17 came down (more like it came to a stop after skimming across a paddock or 2) at a still vacant paddock at 79-81 Fred Taylor Dr (the old SH16) - ending up about 50m from the current road (on the Whenuapai side).  It's in an almost straight line to the south-west from the main runway at Whenupai which is the direction it took-off from that night.

...Gibbo

[errolmartyn]

Thought I'd already posted this entry from Vol Two of my For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915, but seems not, though I had earlier posted the entry for the B-17 crash elsewhere on the forum:

Sat 1/Sun 2 Aug 1943
NEW ZEALAND

Contract passenger and cargo flight to Amberley, Queensland, Australia
Air Transport Command, per United Air Lines contract (Mills Field, San Francisco, California, USA)

Consolidated C-87 Liberator Express 41-24027/JD-4 - crewed by a United Air Lines crew operating under contract to the ATC, took off at 0234 in light rain and 2½-mile visibility with 13-14mph NNE wind, gusting 28mph, and climbed 400-600 feet. Almost immediately entered a steep 180° left-hand turn with flaps down, gradually lost height and had almost levelled out when it hit the ground 1¼ miles NNE of the airfield, ¼ mile to the left of the line of the runway. The C-87 broke up as it bounced and skidded over the Waitemata marshland, the cabin coming to rest 300 yards from the first point of impact. Rescuers were impeded by deep mud, and water rising around the wreckage as the tide came in. Of the 25 on board, three crew and 11 passengers died in the crash, and another passenger of injuries on the 19th. The crew who died are thought to have been buried in the Waikumete Cemetery, but may have been exhumed after the war and transported to their home towns. The passengers were cremated and their ashes later returned to Asia. The crash was the most serious aircraft accident in New Zealand to date. The death toll was exceeded only by the crash of NZNAC DC-3 ZK-AYZ in the Kaimai Ranges on 3 July 1963.

+Captain: Herschel V LAUGHLIN, United Air Lines. Approx 17,000hrs solo (approx 783 on C-87)
*Co-pilot: John WEISDA, United Air Lines.
*Navigator: Paul ULLMAN, United Air Lines.
+Radio Op: Henry PROSCHASKA, United Air Lines.
+Flight Engineer: George ALLEN, United Air Lines.
+Passenger: Hiroshi MINAMI (infant)
+Passenger: Kiyomi MINAMI (housewife)
+Passenger: Seiichiro MINAMI (male clerk)
*Passenger: Takeichi MINAMI (male clerk)
*Passenger: Hiyozo NAGASHIMA (male director)
*Passenger: Katsumasa OTA (clerk)
*Passenger: Masaru OTA (infant)
*Passenger: Miyoe OTA (housewife)
*Passenger: Yuriko OTA (female infant)
+Passenger: Hormiko SARAYE (male infant)
*Passenger: Isao SARAYE (male director)
*Passenger: Kuni SARAYE (housewife)
*Passenger: Misao SARAYE (female infant)
*+Passenger: Saturo UENO (housewife)
+Passenger: Schizuko UENO (female infant)
+Passenger: Tsunejiro UENO (male clerk)
*?Passenger: Tsuneo UENO (infant)
*Passenger: Kinzo YAMASHITA (fisherman)
+Passenger: Koniyo YAMASHITA (housewife)
*Passenger: Nanae YAMASHITA (infant)
+Passenger: Satsuki YAMASHITA (female infant)
*Passenger: Susumu YAMASHITA (infant)
+Passenger: Aua APIBALSREE (male student)
+Passenger: Bira KALAYASIRI (male student)
+Passenger: Yuwan SARANIYAMA (male student)
(+ = killed; * = injured; *? = injured?; *+ = injured and died 19 August.)
The passengers consisted of 22 Japanese and three Thai students, All had been interned in New Zealand after the outbreak of hostilities with Japan. They were being taken from New Zealand ‘to be traded for allied citizens’. One of the ‘infants’ was a child of about nine or 10 years, the others all under three. US military reports on the accident incorrectly record the C-87’s number as 41-124027 and include variations in the spelling of names of crew and passengers, the latter in particular.

And from the Amendment section of Vol Three:

. . . took off from Whenuapai. Coincidentally, regarding the ‘most serious accident’ comment, Australia’s worst ever aircraft accident had occurred less than two months earlier, on 14 Jun 43, when a USAAF B-17C Fortress crashed at Bakers Creek, Queensland, killing 40 of the 41 on board. For a detailed account of the loss of the Liberator Express see pp6-9 of the June 2006 issue of the AHSNZ Journal.

Errol

[gibbo]

Jan 19, 2015 11:34:37 GMT 12 gibbo said:

Viewed the B17 crash report last Friday @ archives... always wondered where it was as my grandad was woken by the explosion(s) - he was sleeping in Pt. Chev.  It was just after midnight so it wasn't that crash you heard from school (ironically also my primary school, but 20 years later than you!).

From what I could tell from comparing old photos to todays google maps is the B17 came down (more like it came to a stop after skimming across a paddock or 2) at a still vacant paddock at 79-81 Fred Taylor Dr (the old SH16) - ending up about 50m from the current road (on the Whenuapai side).  It's in an almost straight line to the south-west from the main runway at Whenupai which is the direction it took-off from that night.

...Gibbo


Have this afternoon visited what I suspect is the site at which the B17 exploded - look for these co-ordinates in google maps:   -36.811049, 174.597918


Comparing 4 reference points that I noted from photos in the crash report the site matches those photos 100% but I would suggest with heavy suburban growth the site will be built over in the very near future.


...Gibbo

[derteufel]

Im interested in talking to someone about the 1945 liberator crash at Whenuapai. This plane was for many years was left in the paddock next to our house. and im interested to talking about it to anyone. 

Call me if intereseted :

mobile: [phone] (New Zealand)

home ph: 094167079 (New Zealand)

Kind Regards Tom