Metflight GA Charges

[Bruce]

For the recreational aviators out there, I thought I might raise this concern here on the board as we need to do something about it.

Metflight GA is the avition weather service provided by Metservice for private pilots - providing "aviation quality" situational reports and forecasts. up until this point the service has been free to private pilots, as the costs of the service have been sponsored by CAA in order encourage safe practices. this sponsorsjip runs out at the end of June, however Metservice will provide an additional month before starting to charge users for their met forecasts.

From 1st August, you will need to subscribe to the Metflight Service in order to receive the forecasts.
 NZ$95 plus GST for an annual subscription (= 30 cents/day over the subscription period)
 NZ$65 plus GST for a 6 month subscription (= 41 cents/day over the subscription period)
 NZ$35 plus GST for a 1 calendar month or 30 day subscription (= $1.34/day over the
subscription period)

this is a dangerous move - Many aviators only use the service 2 or 3 times a month, if they are going to make a cross country flight - the subscription rates will therefore be perceived as poor value, and I would imagine some pilots would not use them. In a maritime climate such as we have in NZ, that is an extremely hazardous practice.
The charges are also unfair - trampers and boaties in NZ (even Commercial operators) have access to specialist forecasts free of charge on safety grounds. do pilots have to pay because they are seen as "wealthy"? (check out a local marina sometime to see whether this is a fair assumption!).

the cost of providing Metflight GA is only abour $100 - 120 THOUSAND per year - less than one CAA staff member's salary. certainly far less than the $200 MILLION the government looks likely to spend on the Rugby World cup to cover income shortfalls.

Avoiding the cost of ONE intensive search and rescue operation would probably cover the cost of Metflight GA more than tenfold. Why are CAA and the governemnt in general being so tight?

responsible pilots will no doubt just pay the subs and get on with it, but the principle remains, our recreational activity is expected to pay for safety - critical services provided free of charge to other activities. Its not a CAA issue, but Ministry of Transport.

The NZ aviation federation (SAA, RNZAC, Warbirds and AOPA) are intensively lobbying the Minister of Transport over the issue. What is needed to back up the case is some public outrage - make it a public issue. Please contact your local MPs and raise this issue with them - let them know it is unacceptable and unfair.

What do our pilots think about this?

[Darren Masters]

Bruce, I agree it is total and utter nonsense. It is a VITAL resource and one that we need to safely aviate. The civilian forecast does contain charts and the like but no wind data/cloud/vis and everything else that we need. I'm lucky enough to be able to access the work one. One thing I can suggest is possibly a weather request thread and I will do my best to look up the ones required to save the cost to fellow aviators here but I still think this MUST be a free service. Perhaps something with current affairs/contacting media re this may put the wind up these people and make them think twice about it? I would be more than willing to help. Let me know. Stuart R might be able to put us intouch with the correct media contacts. The more stink that is made about it the greater the awareness/outcome.

[FlyingKiwi]

Charging for the GA service is totally counterproductive to promoting aviation safety. That's basically my opinion, and I'm sure most of you will hopefully agree with me.

[baz62]

Yep its just another way to milk money from us for a service that should be free!

[Dave Homewood]

Is there some way you guys who it affects can set up an online petition to present to the Minister of Transport? Feel free to use the forum to promote the cause.

[Bruce]

Unfortunately Online petitions are not an acceptable method of peititioning the NZ house of representatives - they have no legal status. We'll be fighting this, no doubt about it. It does have to be made into a public issue though, although I doubt "Joe Public" could care....

[Darren Masters]

I contacted both Campbell and Sainsbury. I don't care if they accept it or not. See what happens but it does have to be stopped! Probably not relevant to them as it is not a 'mobile phone scam' etc etc but when 'AVIATION SAFETY' at risk is mentioned, who knows?

[Bruce]

Sainsbury is covering a far more critical news item instead - Shrek the sheep has died.....

[Dave Homewood]

Ah bugger. Chops for tea then?

[AirVanMan]

I agree that charging for GA wx could be very problematic.
I suggest it should remain free for non commercial ops and an annual fee for people using it for commercial ops.
Maybe aeroclubs will supply for "free" to members.
I can see that a lot of airwaves will be consumed with pireps on wx and also a lot of wx requests on ATC frequencies too.

Let the games begin.

[stu]

I'm no longer in the news loop at work having moved from live telly into audio post but I do have regular contact with John Campbell so I shot him off an email outlining the situation. Hopefully he can let me know who to follow it up with (a lot of changes in news since I was associated with them).

I'll see what else I can do.

[flyjoe180]

Are there any instructors here members of ALPA that can bring it to their attention?

First it was flight plans. The service provided to VFR flights is just a flight following service, much the same as if the pilot was always updating their flight progress with Christchurch Information. Pilots have to terminate their own flight plans. Flight plans of old had a more comprehensive requirement from both parties (pilots and Airways) and was much more accurate and strict with regards to flight following and position reports.

Then it was the Airways flight planning phone number. It was an 0800 number. Now it is a pay as you go number. Another cost to terminate or even to file a plan if you don't have internet access to hand.

Now this meteorological information cost. It is not enough to look at the Metservice website and get the general everyday forecast off there, nor from the local or regional rag. Pilots need additional information, winds, thunderstorm outlooks, temperatures at altitudes etc, to ensure their flight will be a safe and (hopefully) uneventful journey by way of planning to cope with forecast conditions along the way. It may even help to decide not to go in the first place.

CAA hold safety seminars telling pilots they should consult all the information they can. It does not take an expert to see that if additional costs are involved that some pilots may not feel they can access essential information and stay within what is sometimes an already tight budget to stay current. The result: less flying, or more ill-informed judgements made. Double standards CAA! Penny pinching and creating a less-safe GA environment. Positive risk management in what is probably one of our most at-risk sections of aviation: where is it CAA?

[pilotpotters]

Just a thought. Do the boating fraternity still have free wx information from the met service? I remember the argument back in the late 80's (when Met Service introduced charges) about being able to take a boat load of people out to sea with all the relevant forecasts etc free but the GA community had to pay. I guess its user pays . Does anyone know what the comparable rates are for GA in UK or The States? maybe we are still better off

[Bruce]

Boaties dont pay for marine forecasts - even commercial users.
From my understanding there is no charge for aviation met services in the USA (funding covered by FAA). Not sure about the UK.

[Darren Masters]

Free in Aussie also through the Bureau of Meteorology.

[Peter Lewis]

I suspect that many private pilots will simply opt out.

To calculate the cost at 30c per day is fallacious. I'm probably more active than the average private user, and I'd access the GA weather service about once a month so that would cost $9.10 per use at the suggested $109.25 ($95 + GST) per annum.

If I'm planning to fly from Whenuapai to Ardmore or North Shore (or just a city scenic) I don't look up the weather. Normally I'd just watch Jim Hickey the night before to see if I need to actually get out of bed in the morning and then stick my nose out of the window before I set off. Coromandel or The Barrier, yes it does become a factor.

If this does proceed, lots will opt out, someone will eventually be caught in a weather-related accident, and the the fur will fly.

Another aspect is the Sale of Goods and Services Act. This does not apply to business-to-business sales, so commercial operators are not affected by it, and free weather information is not a sale, so it would not apply to the current GA weather system.
However, if I buy weather info from MetServe for private use, this transaction will fall within the scope of the Act. Then if the weather forecast is inaccurate, I have a legal case for damages against the supplier.
In reality, I suspect that Metserve will therefore add vagueness to their reports - "Mainly fine, some showers heavy at times" - which will probably make their forecasts of little use.

As has been said, both boating and mountain forecasts are currently supplied free of charge - maybe they have plans there as well?

[Dave Homewood]

In charging for the service does that mean that the user will need a password to log onto it?

If so, why not set up an account that is forum-wide and get a load of pilots here to put a dollar or two in like a syndicate and you all get the password to use?

[flyjoe180]

That's a good idea Dave, but I think we were discussing the effect of the issue nationwide? ALL GA pilots, come to rnzaf.proboards.com and get your weather! Good hit rate

[Dave Homewood]

Yes, I thought I'd suggest it in case you guys cannot persuade CAA to drop the idea.

[htbrst]

From Radio NZ this morning

www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/77283/pilots-to-pay-for-weather-reports

The Civil Aviation Authority is to begin charging recreational pilots for weather reports that have been free.
The cost of the forecasts has been covered for seven years, to prevent pilots taking risks, but the Authority says it can no longer afford to provide the reports and wants aviators to pay for the information themselves.

Some members of the Manawatu Microlight Club in Feilding say not all pilots will want to do that, and they predict a rise in the number of accidents and other incidents linked to the weather.

They also want to know why boaties, climbers, mountaineers and skiers don't have to pay for tailored weather reports, if pilots are being asked to....