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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 19, 2007 16:03:39 GMT 12
I am reading a superb book at the moment called 'Stand For New Zealand - Voices from the Battle of Crete' - which was published last year and records personal memories of Kiwi soldiers who were evacuated from Greece to Crete and ended up defending the island - some escaping and some becoming POW's.
In one passage a soldier recalled he escaped Greece on the HMS Ajax, which he said was a New Zealand ship. Was it?
Ajax was a Leander class light cruiser and it fought alongside our own HMS Achilles at the Battle of the River Plate.
I thought the only two Leander class cruisers NZ had were HMS/HMNZS Achilles and HMS/HMNZS Leander.
Was the old guy mistaken? Was it a Royal Navy ship with a predominantly kiwi crew perhaps?
I have said many times, to the chagrin of some, how I think the idea of Naval power is obsolete. But I will say the work of the navy in evacuations like Dunkirk and Greece and Crete was phenominal and they were absolute lifesavers to the poor troops forced into retreat.
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Post by corsair67 on Oct 19, 2007 16:12:09 GMT 12
Naval power obsolete? Tell that to any country that has been on the receiving end of the firepower from a US Carrier Battle Group!  HMS Ajax wasn't a New Zealand ship as far as I'm aware: they may be confused because of the link to HMS Achillies in the Battle of the River Plate? |
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Post by FlyNavy on Oct 19, 2007 16:46:31 GMT 12
HMS Ajax entering Portsmouth Harbour painting:  |
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Post by alanw on Oct 19, 2007 17:35:00 GMT 12
From what I have read, HMS Ajax was the Seventh of a long line of Royal Navy ships that carried the name Ajax, and was most certainly a Royal Navy Ship. The NZ connection was really the Battle of River Plate and a stable mate of HMNZS Achilles both being Leander Class. Dave; re naval power being obsolete I would like to suggest a book by Barret Tillman called "The Sixth battle" I concur with Corsair67 80 odd a/c with bombs/missles etc not to mention the cruisers etc with missles/shells certainly can 1) ruin your day  2) Create quite an urban renewal programme  In any future conflict (they will come, if history is any thing to go by) naval power will guard ships delivering supplies, carry troops/equipment to assist beleagured countries Two books being good reading are Red Phoenix and Vortex by Larry Bond Regards Alan |
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Post by flyjoe180 on Oct 19, 2007 19:54:19 GMT 12
My Great Uncle served on HMS Ajax at the Battle of River Plate. It was RN and a British crew, and I believe was considered a sister ship to HMNZS (HMS) Achilles, because they were of the same class and build (so called 'Leander' Class Cruisers). Achilles was on loan to the RNZN, hence the HMNZS title. Ajax was one of five such Leander cruisers. My Great Uncle Bob Oldfield was the subject of a biography titled 'The Man they Couldn't Kill' by Dennis Holman. He started the war as a stoker on HMS Ajax, served at River Plate, then joined the Submariners where he survived a tidal wave in Chile, and a sinking in the Mediterranean. One night he got so drunk he missed his submarine, but the submarine was never seen again, so despite a reprimand for being AWOL, he had cheated death again. My Great Uncle was then imprisoned where he escaped an Italian POW camp, and after several escapes, eventually joined Italian partisans. Caught by the Germans, he was to be shot for spying and sabotage, but was reprieved in person at the last moment by none other than Field Marshall Albert Kesselring. He then headed to German POW camps, but after more escapes, he was sent to Germany to a secure camp to do hard labour. During this hard labour he helped to sabotage a railway line by packing the earth under the rails they were working on, with ice, which would eventually melt as spring arrived, buckling them. The Germans' patience ran out with my Great Uncle Bob, and he was imprisoned in a concentration camp, which he survived and was liberated by Americans in 1945. www.collect-antiques.com/books/book0038.shtml |
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Post by flyjoe180 on Oct 19, 2007 20:10:41 GMT 12
Fly Navy, where did your painting come from? My Dad would love a copy of this.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Oct 19, 2007 21:55:33 GMT 12
HMS Leander / HMNZS Leander Named after the character from Greek mythology. Loaned to New Zealand, commissioned as HMNZS Leander in September 1941. At the Battle of Kolombagara, Leander was heavily damaged by a Long Lance torpedo, causing many casualties, and sending the ship to repairs for two years. HMS Achilles / HMNZS Achilles The Achilles was the second vessel loaned to New Zealand, commissioned as HMNZS Achilles in September 1941. She had earlier participated in the Battle of the River Plate. Achilles was sold to India in 1948, being renamed Delhi. HMS Ajax The Ajax participated in the Battle of the River Plate. The town of Ajax, Ontario was named after the ship, with street names in the town named after members of the crew. Ajax also participated in the Battle of Cape Matapan. Ajax also took part in shelling the mainland of Normandy during the beach landings. HMS Neptune Manned by New Zealand crew, although not part of the Royal New Zealand Navy. Neptune was sunk by an Italian mine off the coast of Tripoli. HMS Orion Orion participated in the evacuation of Crete in 1941 and was heavily damaged www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hms_ajax.htmSee here for details of ships involved at the evacuation of Crete and Greece www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Cret-b8.html#name-207110-1 |
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Post by FlyNavy on Oct 20, 2007 0:08:24 GMT 12
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Post by flyjoe180 on Oct 20, 2007 9:50:50 GMT 12
Thanks Fly Navy  |
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Post by flyjoe180 on Oct 31, 2007 12:14:10 GMT 12
HMS Ajax with battle damage after the Battle of River Plate  |
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Post by Bruce on Oct 31, 2007 12:26:11 GMT 12
I'm a little puzzled by he last photo as a set of 2 - bay biplane wings are visible on the catapault amidships. This suggests a fairey seafox was the floatplane embarked at the time. During the Battle of the river plate, I was under the impression that all the cruisers at that Battle had Supermarine Walruses embarked (which are single - bay biplanes)
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Post by flyjoe180 on Oct 31, 2007 12:32:21 GMT 12
A Fairey Seafox was launched by Ajax for gunnery spotting on Graf Spee during the engagement at River Plate.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Oct 31, 2007 12:33:06 GMT 12
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Post by flyjoe180 on Oct 31, 2007 12:42:22 GMT 12
HMS Ajax was initially fitted with four single 4" (102 mm) and three quad 0.5" (12.7 mm) anti-aircraft guns, as well as carrying an Hawker Osprey observation aircraft. She also carried eight 21" (533 mm) torpedo tubes. In 1937, the single 4" guns were replaced with dual 4" guns and the Osprey replaced by a Fairey Seafox.
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Post by Bruce on Oct 31, 2007 13:05:25 GMT 12
Thanks for clarifying that Joe, Archilles had a Walrus at the time and the story I had heard suggested Exeter and Ajax were similarly equipped. (Achilles later had the catapault removed and the walrus was transferred to the RNZAF). Thanks for the info.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Oct 31, 2007 13:23:42 GMT 12
No problem. As it turned out, Ajax's Seafox experienced trouble with it's radio and was of little use to the cruisers for spotting.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 31, 2007 13:25:20 GMT 12
The removal of the catapult was some years later though Bruce, as Achilles operated in the Pacific with the Walrus into 1942 or so. See Eric Ford's page on my site, he was the mechanic. www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/Eric%20Ford.htm |
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