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Post by aeromedia on Dec 2, 2011 18:20:10 GMT 12
With the exciting new development underway at the Air Force Museum of New Zealand, how about a discussion regarding bridging the gaps in the collection? As I've said before, I'm a huge fan of the place and thrilled its on my doorstep. To me the obvious gaps are a Corsair and a Mosquito, but I have to wonder how would those ever be funded?  I reckon the days of swapping a surplus Vampire for a Mustang are long gone !!!!!! I also would be more than happy to see the Alpine Hurricane have a happy life at the AFMoNZ. Once again, though. Where would biscuits of that proportion come from? Any ideas, benefactors, lotto winners or dream lists out there? |
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Post by shorty on Dec 2, 2011 19:52:32 GMT 12
I reckon a Ventura would be more deserving than a Mossie and get the Sunderland down from Motat too
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Post by corsairarm on Dec 2, 2011 20:59:34 GMT 12
Dear Shorty As you can see I am quite happy at Motat currently basking in the sun before I get a spruce up before going into my lovely new hangar.  Tis a pity though the Air force didn't save my sister Aircraft at Hobby before having her chop up.  but perhaps you could have her cockpit section which was sent to Christchurch  and as for my little mate the Ventura you can see she is starting to get her new coat of paint soon before she too joins me in the new hangar   |
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Post by ZacYates on Dec 2, 2011 21:05:20 GMT 12
Ventura would be great next to the Hudson.
I'd love to see the Canberra B.8(?) restored once the (after my donation, accelerated) work on the Oxford, P-40 and Wildy are complete, and the B.20 moved to the new wing.
Corsair yes, see if the former Ross Jowitt parts can be combined into a representative example in a diorama.
How about a Bristol Fighter (the airworthy replica maybe?) to represent the NZPAF?
The Mosquito would be nice but I'd rather see it represent one of the RAF's Kiwi squadrons as opposed to the silver 75Sqn aircraft.
Catalina "Dumbo" diorama?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 3, 2011 0:57:08 GMT 12
Already in the collection and needing completion:
Catalina
Canberra
Mosquito - Hasn't the Air Force Museum got a Mosquito project already in storage.?
Also within reach but recovery mission and funding needed-
Boeing 727 (Woodbourne)
Corsair - there's a pretty intact RNZAF one sittiing in the Jungle in the Pacific. I saw some photos recently of it taken within the last few months and it's definately repairable.
Ventura also wasting away up in the Pacific
Purchase or Build Replicas of:
Venom
Meteor
DH60 Moth.
A replica of one of Sockburn's Caudrons would help keep the early history alive too. Early plans for the musuem stated they were to build one of them. The Caudrons were more important to our military aviaiton history than Bleriot Britannia was.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 3, 2011 1:09:45 GMT 12
Something else I would like to see there other than the aircraft is an exhibit on the living conditions of airmen in WWII. They could set up one of the four man canvas-topped wooden huts that were used on most of the stations. The could also set up a Pacific tent with everything from the camp stretchers and mossie nets to the home made furniture, Cactus stove, food parcel from home, some dummies playing cards, etc. to demonstrate how primitive it was, and have voices playing at each exhibits of veterans talikng about life on a station or life at Henderson Field, etc. Another one could be a pilot's room in a Mess in the UK, with nice cosy fireplace and good bed, etc, as a compairson.
Perhaps another room could be a WAAFery.
The WWII house exhibit upstairs has had its day and is old hat now. I'd put something far more relevant to the RNZAF history in there, the living conditions airmen lived in.
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Post by shorty on Dec 3, 2011 6:16:20 GMT 12
Are there still any Venturas available in South Africa?
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Post by aeromedia on Dec 3, 2011 6:43:05 GMT 12
The Ventura strikes me as the sort of aircraft that could probably be found relatively easily somewhere around the planet and for not too much moolah.
For instance, Courtesy were offering a complete but landing-damaged Lodestar (Lady Lode Star) very recently for USD $29,000. Engines and everything and a really original looking cockpit. Those WWII tailwheel twins are around and are not out of reach.
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Post by baz62 on Dec 3, 2011 9:36:11 GMT 12
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Post by shamus on Dec 3, 2011 9:41:32 GMT 12
Yes, the Museum does have a Mosquito project awaiting restoration. They were originally going to do the two wings at the same time. Their own and the Motat one, which is now completed and installed on the Mossie in Auckland.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Dec 3, 2011 11:38:22 GMT 12
Will the Ventura retain the scheme with "Put the Squeeze On 'Em"? I liked that.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 3, 2011 11:48:45 GMT 12
Gosh that Lodestar seems to have been a complete bargain for any museum looking for a static one. But I do not believe that Venturas are anywhere near as plentiful as Lodestars, and apart from the kiwi one rotting away at Talasea the only ones I am aware of are owned by museums, and the only musuem which had surplus numbers was the SAAF Museum, which had about five of them as possible swap items. I agree the PV-1 Ventura is an important gap in the collection.
Yes I thought there was a Mossie at Wigram already. An important type used by four NZ squadrons, It will be a long road till it goes on display but at least they have a representative airframe to start with. Has anyone seen the cockpit section that the page on NZ2355 says Ted Packer retained to restore? Did he complete that project?
I think it would be nice to see a Hind there again too, to tell the story of the Army Co-operation squadrons which have been all but forgotten.
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 3, 2011 11:52:52 GMT 12
Sell everything else in the collection, and use the funds from the sale to buy a Corsair.
You know it makes sense! ;D
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Post by flyjoe180 on Dec 3, 2011 11:58:50 GMT 12
Fibreglass Corsair is the way to go, a pal for the Swordfish  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 3, 2011 12:18:55 GMT 12
Will the Ventura retain the scheme with "Put the Squeeze On 'Em"? I liked that. I hope not, it has no business being on a Ventura. The nose art was taken from a No. 40 Squadron RNZAF Lodestar, and the sleeve was changed from the stars and stripes to the NZ sleeve seen. NZ4600 never served with an RNZAF squadron or a servicing unit, it went straight to the TTS at Nelson upon arrival in NZ, so I doubt that it ever had any artwork applied in NZ like that (till MOTAT got it). I also believe the Coastal Patrol slogan is bogus in terms of representing operational aircraft - Shorty has displayed a photo showing it was faintly on it when MOTAT got it so it is not their mistake, but my belief is that it was either residue from the USAAF paint underneath the RNZAF repaint, or it was maybe applied as a training exercise for a sign writer at the TTS perhaps, or maybe for their 1944 open day so the public didn't think it was a transport plane. But operational RNZAF Venturas as far as I have found never wore such a slogan. Why would they? Personally I would prefer to see NZ4600 painted into No. 487 (NZ)Squadron marking with Len Trent VC's colours with the Hudson turret they have decided not to use on the Hudson fitted, then to see this bogus scheme it has worn since the 1970's repainted on it. I wonder if it will be as shiny as the Hudson?  |
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Post by agile on Dec 4, 2011 17:22:03 GMT 12
but perhaps you could have her cockpit section which was sent to Christchurch Dear Corsairarm, I too am quite happy in my current location in the workshop at FAS, who took me in when I was headed for the scrapper. I am in the process of a thorough and loving restoration by a gentleman who would be devastated to see me moved to the AFMNZ. My friend agile would be happy to arrange a meeting if you are ever in Christchurch, and in the meantime perhaps we could all remember John 8:7. Kind Regards NZ4112 |
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Post by vs on Dec 5, 2011 17:46:36 GMT 12
ahhhhh....my kind of thread!
First off, spread the Avengers wings!
If you look at what is around:
DC6 flight deck....check out my pic of the American Airlines DC6 at the Air and Space Museum. I believe there is a ex RNZAF DC6 in South Africa?
727
Ventura (ex South African Air Force?)
Blehnem (few avaliable in Canada)
Corsair
Dauntless
109 (there always seem to be some around for sale...be ggod to have some enemy aircraft to represent the aeroplanes RNZAF crew flew against
It would be good to see them buy some World War 1 replicas from the Vintage Aviator
F27, sure there are probably ex RNZAF F27's around
Mosquito
Hurricane (there are projects around)
Tornado GR1 or Jag to represent NZ pilots flying in recent times for the RAF, F111
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Dec 5, 2011 18:31:10 GMT 12
For my money, viable ones, at least:
Hawker Hind (see Subritzkys)
Airspeed Oxford (see above...)
Zero (see Ak museum)
This is the Air Force Museum of New Zealand after all :-)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 5, 2011 18:40:34 GMT 12
Johnny, they have an Oxford already.
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Post by errolmartyn on Dec 5, 2011 19:34:13 GMT 12
Numbers of NZers killed or PoW during WWII by aircraft type (100 or more only listed here):
Wellington - 696
Lancaster - 545
Stirling - 418
Spitfire/Seafire - 219
Hudson - 161
Halifax - 148
Ventura - 141
Blenheim/Bisley/Bolingbroke - 140
Hurricane/
Sea Hurricane - 111
Mosquito - 108
Notable that two of the three aircraft topping the list are not represented in any NZ museum . . . or ever likely to be.
Errol
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I reckon the days of swapping a surplus Vampire for a Mustang are long gone !!!!!!
