Strange question on Kiwi accent

[Luther Moore]

I have been really into the 1940's lately after researching my family and I have been trying to piece together what it was like back then.One question has been on my mind, What was the Kiwi accent like back then and how much has it changed? I recently heard a recording on Youtube of some British chaps on a bombing raid somewhere over Germany and I was shocked at how they sounded ,nothing like anything I had ever heard before. They sounded so proper. .

I wonder how much the Kiwi accent has changed since then and did they speak so proper, Or was it just like everyone speaks now?

[obiwan27]

There are audio recordings that were made by the NZ Broadcasting Corporation just after the Second World War ended. They were made by their mobile units that went around the country recording the first generation of people born in NZ in an effort to get stories of the pioneer days for future broadcasts.

These recordings are stored at both Victoria and Canterbury Universities and have been added to over the years by linguistics students as an aid to plotting trends and changes in NZ English. We have the only audio record of our variety of the English language recorded from the first generation of NZers born here and every generation since.

I know this as I minored in linguistics when I did my degree from 2008-2010 and worked as a research technician 'tagging' the various audio recordings for future use by Linguistics researchers. It involved listening to a heck of a lot of audio recordings and was a very fascinating historical record, both of life in NZ over the years and of the changes in NZ English also.

I imagine that there will be audio/film recordings of the period that you are after Luther, there may some on the ziln website, such as this one. www.ziln.co.nz/video/2388

You need to remember though, that the NZBC in both radio, film and TV trained their staff to speak in BBC style 'received pronunciation' up until the 1980s. That is not an accurate reflection of NZ English in the venacular, which is the more accurate form of any spoken language.

There may also be some variation back in the day depending on which people went to a private school as opposed to a state school I suspect!!

If there are interviews with ordinary folk you may hear something more authentic when they are speaking, as opposed to the interviewers.

If you have an interest in language maybe you should consider studying linguistics?

To answer your last question I would say that NZ English has undoubtedly changed since then, particularly certain vowel sounds but also the use of more contractions in our speech, as well as variations between generations and gender.

Hope this is of some help.

[Luther Moore]

I was thinking it was a stupid question but I see now that people actually study it, thanks! It's a very interesting subject. I'm sure it would be great to study.

A very interesting thing I learnt while we are on the subject of linguistics is the Hindenburg. I learnt that the recording of the guy who commentates the crash is not what he really sounds like as it is too fast. When they slow down the recording to normal speed he sounds so different and speaks almost in a calm matter. I wonder if it's the same thing with say, the BBC recordings?

[Dave Homewood]

Luther, go to the Radio New Zealand site and look up Sounds Historical. It's a weekly show every Snday evening with lots of old recorded history, especially from the 1940's and 1950's. I don't think the accent of the average bloke has changed too much, but it has to be remembered that back then the recording equipment wasn't as good and added a tinny nature to things, and also if "on the air" the people often put on a posher voice. But there are some great recordings from WWII battlefields where kiwis are saying hi to their families back home in their normal voices and they sound much like now.

[Luther Moore]

Thanks for the link Dave. I have listened to a few recording on the site and it seems to be a mixed bag. Some have that posh british accent and some have the normal accent with a slight touch of poshness. I noticed they tend to extend the the end of the sentence. It's hard to explain but they tend to roll the last bit. It's very hard to find someone talking with out that British accent.

Here is the link to the recordings www.soundarchives.co.nz/audiolibrary

[shorty]

One of the most obvious traits is the rising inflection at the end of a sentance that an awful lot of kiwis use, it makes every statement sound like a question.
The reason for the Britishness of a lot of NZ speech is that they were mostly the children (or at the most grandchildren)of british immigrants so as a result they spoke like their parents.
This will change over the next couple of generations with the influence of differing immigration patterns and the widespread media in recent years

[Dave Homewood]

It might interest you to know Luther that studies in Australia have seen that the Australian accent has dramatically changed in past generations and they say it is much more kiwi-fied than it used to be. You notice it even on TV, in The Sullivans and the Flying Doctors the accents of the 1980's were much more hard core Aussie than they are now. Mind you most of the Australian actors are from NZ it seems...

[Luther Moore]

Shorty, that's very true but I think most of it was them putting it on to sound posh. Are you talking about when they raise their voice at the end of a sentence? I have heard some Kiwi's over here say ''Choice ay BRO'' with the bro being in a high pitch.

Dave ,I don't know what it is but people from Adelaide sound exactly like Kiwi's. I think in a few years we will be speaking like American's thanks to TV.

[flyjoe180]

Adelaide-ians must be very cultured people

[obiwan27]

Jan 17, 2012 16:47:54 GMT 12 Luther Moore said:

Shorty, that's very true but I think most of it was them putting it on to sound posh.Are you talking about when they raise their voice at the end of a sentence? I have heard some Kiwi's over here say''Choice ay BRO'' with the bro being in a high pitch.

Dave,I dont know what it is but people from Adelaid sound exactly like Kiwi's.I think in a few years we will be speaking like American's thanks to TV.

Yes Shorty is right, according to linguistics research it is especially a trait of female kiwis. It is very confusing to the locals in the UK who think that they are being asked questions all the time.

It's unlikely that we will all be speaking like Americans in a few years time. It's true that some expressions or phrases are picked up when they are 'coined' for the first time and then become part of common usage in the English language.

A recent example would be the use of 'Google' and 'Twitter' derived from the companies concerned and then used as a verb that means to do search on the internet (generally now, rather than just Google) or to send a 'tweet on the 'Twitter' network.

Other examples of words and phrases coined and passing into common usage in the English language include the King James version of The Bible and the works of Shakespeare.

Due to our geographic isolation it's likely that our version of English will remain distinct, just as there are regional variations of English throughout England, the US, Canada, Australia and South Africa.

The most well known regional variation in NZ is the rolling of the 'r' from people in Southland.

[Dave Homewood]

I don't know Ken, have you heard teenage girls speaking lately? They all sound like they (think they) are from Beverly Hills from all those shitty un-Reality shows they watch.

[Luther Moore]

I agree Dave, some girls I know use the word ''like'' every third word...''I went like to this shop and they like had this nice like dress and I was like I really like want that dress like so bad''. American TV has made a huge impact on people. When you watch Crime shows at the end they have to put ' In an emergency call 000 not 911' and if you dial 911 it diverts to 000.

[obiwan27]

Dave and Luther, the whole 'like' phenomenon has been present for decades and is simply another example of the evolution of the English language, be it NZ English, US English or another variation.

I'm not sure if I have my notes still about it but our lecturer had done a study of 'like' in Canada and it punctuates sentences probably more frequently now than in the past and has simply developed into more frequent usage. It may be more frequent amongst females of a certain age group, and less frequently used by males of the same age group. That's what linguistics research is all about, determining what changes there may have been.

It does tend to get noticed more by other generations and opposite sexes but language is a living thing and will continue to change. Teenagers tend to be at the forefront of any language change but then once they move into the adult world it's a matter of whether they continue with that change or unconsciously adapt to fit in with other adults.

It's quite a fascinating subject to study and there are many many variations from generation to generation and country to country.

[Luther Moore]

Very good point obiwan. The 'like' drives me insane! I guess every generation has their bad habits.

It's a very interesting subject. I would love to be able to go back in time and compare how people have changed over time.

Do you thing the English language has improved or do you think it's getting more sloppy?

[Dave Homewood]

What--evverrrre, It's like, you know, this American young female "Valley" speak has been around, like, for--everrre, girlfriend.

Ever since the film Clueless popularised it in 1995 it seems to have pervaded NZ female society. When males pick up on similar things from films it lasts only a few months - Austin Powers, Borat, Ali G, Mr T, etc have never become part of the national accent, thank goodness. Yet the Valley Girl accent and even in some cases the chav is permiating the female young of the species like a disease.

Such things never happened in the good old days:

[luke6745]

"Wullington" instead of "Wellington" drives me right up the wall.

[Dave Homewood]

I hate the way Australians all seem to think and insist that we say chups instead of chips. It's a conspiracy I tells ye.

[baronbeeza]

Jan 18, 2012 20:50:41 GMT 12 luke6745 said:

"Wullington" instead of "Wellington" drives me right up the wall.

Defiantly Luke...

[flyjoe180]

Jan 18, 2012 21:01:35 GMT 12 Luther Moore said:

Another thing aswell is the ecceptance of using certain words and new language and how that has changed over the years.If you have a fight with someone and you really get angry and you called someone a'' F***in C*nt''these people would just say''Yea yea'' but I wonder what people would think back in the old times?

I remeber when I was younger and I had a fight with one of my Sisters(I'm not proud of it)but I called her a ''Sl*t''as soon as I said it the whole room went quiet and everyone looked like they just saw elvis and then my sister lost control and nearly killed me.
Now people throw it around like the love word.

I believe certain objectionable language has become more widely used due to 'entertainment'. Movies, TV programmes, and even games include language that even 20 years ago may never made it to the screen in mainstream media. It has become 'tough' or 'cool' to use the foulest language. It is more, I believe, to do with personal standards, discipline and morals.

I know when I am in certain company my language vocabulary slips, I have to think and be careful when I am around those who would not appreciate the use of the F's and C's.

[sparrow]

I have been watching a lot of movies from the 40s and 50s lately,and obviously there is no foul language in them,however,I believe it was reasonably common back then,although not nearly as much as it is today. I've just finished reading Spitfire Pilot,by Flt Lt David Crook,it was written about 1943,and he wrote a couple of times of 'working like ni**ers',which was acceptable back then.
As another poster said,a lot has to do with the screen,and a lot to do with the continual breakdown of society. For example,growing up in NZ during the 70s and 80s,I never heard my father swear in front of us,yet here in Ireland,when I go to some of my friends places,every second word is 'f' and 'c'regardless of if the kids are present,depending on what part of the city I'm in.
Getting back to accents,I get a lot of stick over mine,and have done for the last 15yr. I get called Ozzie,English,Sth African,Polish,American,Brazilian,etc,etc! Comes in handy sometimes,like when old ones come up to me at work, "do...you...speak...English?",I usually answer "Nyet",and they go away and leave me alone!