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Post by mumbles on Jan 19, 2012 11:08:28 GMT 12
I have been watching a lot of movies from the 40s and 50s lately,and obviously there is no foul language in them,however,I believe it was reasonably common back then,although not nearly as much as it is today. I've just finished reading Spitfire Pilot,by Flt Lt David Crook,it was written about 1943,and he wrote a couple of times of 'working like ni**ers',which was acceptable back then. Reminds me of something I read once that said apparently at one point during the Battle of Britain the fighter pilots were asked to mind their language while in the air to spare the sensitive ears of the WAAF's in the plotting rooms...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 19, 2012 11:34:34 GMT 12
I was staying with my Great Uncle Bluey when the series The Pacific was airing in NZ for the first time. he was a combat veteran from the North African and Italian campaigns. He was raving about the series and how good it was. I asked him about the combat scenes, and if it was just like that for him. He took a deep breath and said "Nah boy, nah, we never used to swear like that!" I had to laugh, the thing that had struck him as different was the swearing. He did say that "The Yanks they used to swear a hell of a lot. We only did when we really needed to."
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 19, 2012 14:17:35 GMT 12
[quote I have been watching a lot of movies from the 40s and 50s lately,and obviously there is no foul language in them
I have as well that's why I started thinking about all this. In the movies there is no foul language and everyone is so respectful. I think the most outrageous behaviour I have seen on a 40's movie would be someone calling another a Scallywag, as they held one fist up.
I'm sure the older older Generations would be shocked at how our Grandfathers spoke.
Good point Flyjoe, they didn't have as much on TV back then.
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Post by obiwan27 on Jan 19, 2012 20:14:40 GMT 12
Do you thing the English language has improved or do you think it's getting more sloppy? Neither, the English language has changed and it will continue to do so. The 'sloppiness' of speech 'these days' is simply more evidence of change and when we comment about how certain people speak we are just 'noticing' the change/difference. Mind you 'noticing' actually means people having a rant about something you have no control whatsoever over, especially the grammar and pronunciation Nazis who write letters to the editor about it Don't sweat the small stuff I say
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 19, 2012 20:20:50 GMT 12
I'm with you on the first bit but you lost me on the last.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 19, 2012 20:51:44 GMT 12
So Ken, do you reckon Nek Minnit will be come standard OED language soon then? ;D
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Post by general on Jan 19, 2012 21:51:30 GMT 12
Not while I'm still alive it won't. ) I show little patience for "miSH-chEE-vEE-uss" (it's the adjectival form of "miSS-chief". "miSS-chiv-uss") and "I've got" (there is NO 'got' in the possessive tense) when it's "I have", or "like" every second %%$##@-y word. 'Nek minnit' has made the list! Yes, English is a dynamic and resourceful language. I have no problem with that. There are, however, RULES of grammar. Those who sneer and scorn correction are the worst offenders of ultimately poor comprehension. And this is their native tongue. One weeps for the current generation, and their offspring. FYI, Sparrow, I'm in the same boat! \ Spent enough time o/seas that my accent morphs of its own accord. "Are you Irish . .? English . .? Seffrican . .? Anything but Kiwi. It helps to keep them on their toes. Regards Ross The General McArthur
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 19, 2012 22:14:32 GMT 12
It depends where you use grammar. I didn't listen at school because I was too busy looking out the window at the beach and I am really bad at grammar, but I can still get the word across. Us younger generation (Not speaking for all) have our own way of communicating, especially on facebook. When people speak on facebook or text messages we tend to use a sort of lazy talk like ''Wat u up 2 r u comin out tnyt?'' but we all understand each other.
I have a mate who just came back from the US and everyone asked him if his accent was from New Zealand, So you're not alone.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 20, 2012 8:14:34 GMT 12
I had a real estate agent yesterday reply to my phone call with a text using text language that took me a few minutes to decode. It doesn't exactly inspire or fill one with a confidence of the agent's professionalism.
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Post by mumbles on Jan 20, 2012 11:30:41 GMT 12
Another thing aswell is the ecceptance of using certain words and new language and how that has changed over the years.If you have a fight with someone and you really get angry and you called someone a'' F***in C*nt''these people would just say''Yea yea'' but I wonder what people would think back in the old times? I remeber when I was younger and I had a fight with one of my Sisters(I'm not proud of it)but I called her a ''Sl*t''as soon as I said it the whole room went quiet and everyone looked like they just saw elvis and then my sister lost control and nearly killed me. Now people throw it around like the love word. I believe certain objectionable language has become more widely used due to 'entertainment'. Movies, TV programmes, and even games include language that even 20 years ago may never made it to the screen in mainstream media. It has become 'tough' or 'cool' to use the foulest language. It is more, I believe, to do with personal standards, discipline and morals. I've been thinking about this, and disagree. When I was at primary school (mid 80's), the more adventurous of us swore like troopers, because we could, and because it was naughty. And we weren't doing anything new. It hasn't become "tough or cool" recently; it always has been. Increased use of foul language in media I think does not reflect an increased use in society - it is just more honest in that it merely acknowledges an always present reality. Swearing is as old as language itself, and in some media (e.g. "The Wire") it is an essential element even for credibility, and occasionally brilliant humour. I think the idea our forebears where all immaculately spoken with prefect grammar and clean language is a myth.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 20, 2012 12:01:43 GMT 12
Remember the bad old days when TVNZ used to censor out swear words from movies, so you ended upo with a blank gap that broke the verisimmilitude and ruined the film? Nowadays they even use the bad language on the news!
I agree with Sam entirely. i'll be t the pioneers who lived in the bush probably swore more than we did, and with good reason. The swear words we all hear everyday are not new, they go back centuries and were all invented for a purpose. The famous F-word was invented by an act of Parliament, as an abbreviation for Fornicate Under Consent of the King, after the population had dropped dramatically in Britain folowing some plague or war. I learned that at school!(Inside the classroom from a teacher, so it's probably wrong)
I think the thing is society has simply gone 'to hell with the keeping up appearances rubbish of the Victorian era' and we now do as we like more and more.
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 20, 2012 15:38:55 GMT 12
This is interesting. I found it on another forum who are speaking of the same thing.
''After viewing “Band of Brothers,” the HBO miniseries that followed Easy Company through WWII in Europe, I was more than ready for the new miniseries on WWII in the Pacific theatre.
While the scenery and combat footage were graphically and realistically portrayed, the language and sex talk left me a little unsettled. As a veteran of Vietnam, I can personally attest to the use of profanity during my tour there.
This is not something I am proud of, it was simply the lingua franca of that war.
While viewing “The Pacific” for the 10 weeks that it aired, I could not help but think of the WWII veterans watching these programs with their children and/or grandchildren, and sitting uneasily in their chairs watching the graphic sex scenes or listening to the profanity, especially the use of the f-word, over and over and over again.
I just could not imagine my father, or any WWII veterans I have come to know personally, speaking that way, that often.
Was Hollywood interjecting their modern-day vernacular into the speech of post-Depression era servicemen and women?''
Yes,the older generation definitely swore but not like we do these days.
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Post by shorty on Jan 20, 2012 19:39:45 GMT 12
Something I have been very aware of since I was a youngster and that is the marked change in slang used by your elders. My parents generation used slang terms which had their origins in the wartime forces but as that generation dies off the langusge is dying with them. I haven't heard the terms zac, tanner, buckshee,fong, groppy mocker, spiv etc for a very long time. Some terms never made the transition to decimal but the others have just faded away, so much so that I am having trouble remembering them.
Another grteat change is that you used to hear men whistling while they went about their work but that has also disappeared.
Don't forget their was the Heyes comittee in the states who governed what could be shown in the pictures, hence actors playing married couples slept in single beds and always wore buttoned up pajajmas. similarly there was a limit as to how long a kiss could last on screen and what language could be used. These rules were in force from the thirties right through to at least the late fifties. Any production that breached them could not be shown in mainstream cinemas and was thus doomed to financial oblivion.
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Post by baz62 on Jan 21, 2012 5:34:26 GMT 12
Something I have been very aware of since I was a youngster and that is the marked change in slang used by your elders. My parents generation used slang terms which had their origins in the wartime forces but as that generation dies off the langusge is dying with them. I haven't heard the terms zac, tanner, buckshee,fong, groppy mocker, spiv etc for a very long time. Some terms never made the transition to decimal but the others have just faded away, so much so that I am having trouble remembering them. Another grteat change is that you used to hear men whistling while they went about their work but that has also disappeared. Don't forget their was the Heyes comittee in the states who governed what could be shown in the pictures, hence actors playing married couples slept in single beds and always wore buttoned up pajajmas. similarly there was a limit as to how long a kiss could last on screen and what language could be used. These rules were in force from the thirties right through to at least the late fifties. Any production that breached them could not be shown in mainstream cinemas and was thus doomed to financial oblivion. Actually I whistle on occasion whilst working but then I'm nearly 50 now!
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Post by Luther Moore on Jan 21, 2012 8:49:38 GMT 12
I whistle at work until the the girl walking down the street gives me the middle finger!
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Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 21, 2012 9:09:44 GMT 12
I whistle at work until the the girl walking down the street gives me the middle finger! ;D
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Post by shorty on Jan 21, 2012 11:41:07 GMT 12
Maybe the modern stuff doesn't have enough of a tune that it can be whistled?
And speaking of the misuse of English I get real peeved when the media (eg TV3 last night) refer to Peter Blakes widow as Lady Pippa Blake which she is not, she only has the Lady first if the honour was bestowed on her, seeing as it was given to her husband her title is Pippa, Lady Blake. Ignorant sods!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 21, 2012 14:44:51 GMT 12
You make some fair points there Shorty.
"zac, tanner, buckshee,fong, groppy mocker, spiv"
I know a tanner was sixpence; buckshee meant free; and a spiv was a dodgy black market racketeer (and the name came from the two legal clausess set up in WWII to prevent such people, as they could be arrested as a Suspected Person or Itinerant Vagrant, SPIV.)
I have no idea what a zac or a fong, or a groppy mocker were. Please tell us.
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Post by mumbles on Jan 21, 2012 15:01:42 GMT 12
Maybe the modern stuff doesn't have enough of a tune that it can be whistled? It certainly does, no problems there. I often use an MP3 player full of "modern stuff" while I work, and will hum or whistle what's on it if I don't.
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Post by mumbles on Jan 21, 2012 15:02:41 GMT 12
Yes,the older generation definitely swore but not like we do these days. Or they just didn't do so at the stage of their lives when he knew them.
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