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Post by Officer Crabtree on Jan 25, 2012 17:20:04 GMT 12
I'll be honest, I don't have much of an idea about anything concerning Private Pilots Lisences (licences?). Should I be saving up for one? What age should I start lessons at? Simple things like that. I'll ask the aero club and NPT about it, but it'd also be nice to hear what you guys think.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 25, 2012 17:26:19 GMT 12
First up....
Why do you want a PPL ?
Is that really want you want ?
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Post by FlyingKiwi on Jan 25, 2012 18:38:32 GMT 12
A very valid question, these days you're looking at the better part of $20,000 to do a PPL and then realistically ongoing commitment to keep it current if it's not going to go to waste, and while that certainly shouldn't discourage you from doing it if it's a real passion, you do need to think about whether at your age there might be more dare I say it useful things to be spending your money on. If you are keen on doing one though, your local aero club would be a good place to start - if you haven't done one before, an introductory flight is often a good way to make up your mind whether it's something you can see yourself doing in future. If at all possible, I'd also recommend shopping around and looking at different organisations and seeing what they have to offer; as with most things in life the first group you talk to might not necessarily be the best for what you're after. (don't take that as a dig at any of the training organisations in your part of the country; just speaking from my own experience up here in Auckland .
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Post by shorty on Jan 25, 2012 18:59:10 GMT 12
It maybe that flying a microlight might satisfy your itch and could be a lot cheaper.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 25, 2012 19:07:14 GMT 12
I asked because it seemed such a wishy/washy question.
If you were really interested you would be like Jacob Johnson was and hang around the club washing aircraft etc. That is at least in the aero-club side of things. There are so many aviation related activities though. You mentioned Nelson Pilot Training but there will also be the recreational flying guys and the gliding club.
If you have not met Kevin Allport yet you could look him up. He has been around most of these organisations since the fellow in a flowing robe rode a horse about the place.
Some people fly as a recreation, some as a challenge. Some want to go on to do a CPL. All would have a very strong interest and are prepared to fork out big dollars.
If there is a cheap form of aviation then I am sure many here would want to know about it.
I started off gliding, because I could afford a flight every week. When I had more money I started powered flying. Sometime later I had a well paid job and while doing shift work I pumped up the hours and did the PPL. Everything else went from there.
Recreational flying on microlights and possibly gliders may be your thing... I don't think they necessarily lead to a PPL though. A PPL in itself is ok, it is not much more expensive to buy an aircraft or at least get involved in a shareholding. Many young fellows of recent times have milked us and taken a study grant to fly. That may have come to an end now though.
Some I have met just get up and join the Air Force as a pilot.. I am sure some had no flying experience.
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jan 25, 2012 20:07:43 GMT 12
I agree, you gotta really want to! If you do, you will make it happen. However, for many, going solo is sufficient, and a hell of an achievement that is not overly expensive.
For me, I always wanted to, but could never justify the cost (thanks to hearty budget indoctrination from my mum). Some 20 years after leaving school and with the benefit of hindsight and a more seasoned view of life I realised I could have done my PPL several times over instead of spending on other forms of recreation.
So, I did. I didn't set a time frame, I just started learning to fly for the sheer fun of it and to get it out of my system. I saw each lesson (one a fortnight) as a part of my recreation and had enormous fun and satisfaction along the way - no time pressure. In less than two years I was a newly qualified PPL. By drip-feeding the cost of flying and flying only when I could afford each lesson, I had fulfilled a dream and owed nothing at the end (or should I say, the beginning)!!
Flying has broadened my perspective (literally and philosophically) taught me self-discipline. As a PIC the added dimension of responsibility and accountability can take away a little from the sheer thrill of flight without such burdens, indeed I've scared the hell out of myself a number of times, but that also teaches you something about life.
There are a lot of things that can and will take your money (cars, girls, drink, etc) and a lot of the fun things to do while you're young aren't cheaper than flying (travel, jetskis, snow skis). The thing is, with flying you can share your accomplishment with others. And once you've got your PPL you've always got it. Even while learning to fly, there's no obligation to continue, unlike a hire-purchase agreement. I don't have a well-paying job. I have people dependant on me. You don't need to be rich to make it work, just desire, determination, and self-discipline.
I say, if you love it, GO FOR IT! It's never gonna be cheaper!!
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Post by thomarse on Jan 25, 2012 20:22:43 GMT 12
Officer C.
I'm surprised and disappointed at the way one particular reply has jumped all over you, without knowing how old you are.
Don't be put off. You're in the ATC, right? They still run an Annual Camp don't they? One that will take you up to first solo?
Go for that as soon as you're old enough (I think probably 16, may have changed). Or line up for the Scouts' Walsh Memorial Flying School, as far as I know they take non - Venturers.
Good luck!
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mgmike
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by mgmike on Jan 25, 2012 20:30:00 GMT 12
I'd suggest the best thing for you to do is to go to your local aero club and have a chat to one of the instructors. They can give you all the info.
Most aero clubs offer trial flights which are relatively inexpensive, and give you the chance to get a feel for flying a light aircraft.
There are 6 exams to sit which can be done during the flight training, though you have to complete some of them before your cross country flights.
Most PPL's will start training with the basics of straight and level flight and turns, climbing and descending, stalling, etc, and will then move into circuit training which teaches you to take off, climb, descend and land. From there comes forced landings, instrument flying, low flying, cross countries etc following which you will eventually sit your flight test.
I got my PL about 7 years ago and absolutely loved the training. You can spread it over a period of time to spread the cost, but of course always good to start saving asap.
I think you need to be 17 to sit your flight test and 16 to go solo (suggest you confirm that) but you can easily start learning at 16 or maybe even 15.
I didn't start until I was 30 and really wished I'd begun earlier. I started off on GA stuff then moved into tailwheel and now have a syndicate share in a Chipmunk at Warbirds. If you're into historics there is a very active scene and its welcoming to newcomers, particulatly those that can lower the average age a bit...
So go for it....
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Post by lumpy on Jan 25, 2012 20:32:53 GMT 12
Graham Orphan had a fair bit to say about this subject at the last Omaka show . He said that you shouldn't go into it with a goal of getting a PPL ( lots of people only get part way there, or get it and never use it ) . You should just go flying because you like it . If you continue to do it and enjoy it , then the PPL will happen . Good advise I thought .
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 25, 2012 20:40:17 GMT 12
If you are referring to my post Thomarse I thought I was being helpful. I do know his age and background and have spent more time in that ATC room than you could ever imagine. I also flew with Thelma Bradshaw in Nelson and it was Kevin Allport that encouraged me to take up power flying.
The ATC room is on Nelson Airport and you have to pass all the places I mentioned to get to it.
I, and others here, wondered why he wanted to spend his money on a PPL. Once we know that we can offer advice based on our experiences.
Years ago the club had Snoopy and Scotty about the place. More recently it was Jacob but I have lost track of things there the past few years.
Recreational flying activity is strong in Nelson and once again Kevin Allport is only going to be keen to assist there. He flies the RANS they have.
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Post by Officer Crabtree on Jan 25, 2012 20:50:09 GMT 12
Thank you everyone, this has giving me a lot to to think about. I do have many more questions, but I'll drip them out over time.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 25, 2012 20:57:51 GMT 12
I think this is a good and valid question that Jasper has asked and such a thread will be interesting to many others young and old who are considering learning to fly. Please keep things civil, helpful and knowledgable, and respect the fact that it is young novices that are asking, so keep it simple and positive.
Good luck Jasper.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 25, 2012 21:04:34 GMT 12
Evektor Sportstar - $180 solo, $199 dual
PA18 Cub - $225 solo, $255 dual
PA28-181 Archer - $255 solo, $285 dual
NPT Rates....
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Post by Officer Crabtree on Jan 25, 2012 21:42:11 GMT 12
Cheers baron.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jan 25, 2012 21:44:46 GMT 12
As a general rule, the most economical way to achieve anything in Aviation is to work out what you want to do next, assess the cost, and then save up pretty well all of that money before you start.
That way you can fly frequently, and the previous lessons are always fresh in the memory so you make rapid progress.
The worst way is to fly say once a month - you spend each lesson trying to remember what the last lesson was all about and really get nowhere.
When I did my PPL I booked three lessons ever two weeks. Allowing for the one-in-three that did not take place (weather, unserviceable aircraft, unavailability of instructor, acts of God) that meant a flight every week.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Jan 26, 2012 10:25:53 GMT 12
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Post by flyinkiwi on Jan 26, 2012 11:43:53 GMT 12
As Baron Beeza alluded to, you really need to examine your motivations and goals in flying before taking the plunge. The cost of getting and maintaining a PPL is growing exponentially and for someone like myself who is paid around the median wage, I am asking myself regularly if I am flying enough to be safe up there. If you want to take on flying as an occupation, then by all means look into the PPL as the stepping stone to an eventual flying career. If you only wish to go up in the odd weekend for a bit of a stooge around, you might want to consider the significantly cheaper alternative of Microlight flying.
For the weekend warrior, the only real difference between my PPL and a Microlight Cert is that I can fly a heavier aircraft with more seats in it with my PPL. Things like aerobatic/night/twin/meat bombingparachute drop/glider or banner tow ratings which are available to PPLs are pipe dreams unless you have the means to exploit them or can afford to keep them current.
Think about your financial situation, both now and in the future. Think about how you can accommodate a few thousand dollars a year after getting your license to maintain it unless you want to do it for a living. The absolute worst thing you can do is start and then have to give it away purely for financial reasons. I know a few people who have done precisely that and to a man they have all regretted it.
Just my 2c.
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Post by flarebounceflare on Jan 29, 2012 20:15:43 GMT 12
100% agree with whoever said fly for fun and the license will come. I started out on my PPL at a large flight school and was indoctrinated with 'must fly twice a week or you will go backwards' In hindsight I now realise those schools are a factory for spitting out pilots with a CPL and a multi engine instrument rating. Not surprisingly I ran out of money and enthusiasm. They don't really get the fly for fun thing, its about a career, which is fine if that is your goal. I have recently got back into it at an aero club after a 10 year break, they laughed at me when I was worried about only being able to afford to fly once a fortnight. They said most people in the real world without a student loan can't afford to fly more often. I fly because I enjoy it and the instructors at the smaller aero club get that (with occasional reminders) I don't care how many lessons it takes to master something as long as it is fun. I don't care if I go solo or with an instructor as long as I get to fly. And some days I just say bollocks to practicing x,y or z lets just go for a scenic tour with a bit of map reading practise thrown in. I find fortnightly works fine, I still remember the last lesson ok, and the cost (about $250 on average) is 'just' doable on a normal sort of a salary if you don't have too many other expensive habits. The only hiccup with the pay as you go theory is the cross countries which you need about $4k in the bank to do it as a block. I have opted to defer them and sit the license without them...eventually.... (rather than go into debt) and then do them the next year or whenever I save up enough, stopping flying for several months to save up isn't an option Sorry a rather long 2 cents worth just to agree with the previous posts that said, shop around for the right place and instructor (it will make the difference) and make sure you enjoy every flight, if you are doing it for fun who cares how long it takes to get the bit of paper, as long as you get to go flying. I have flown all sorts of fun stuff like tiger moths and cubs on the road to getting my PPL, you just need to take an instructor along. Microlights are an option, they are just like 2 seat PPL planes now, but for me the restriction to 1 pax, no flights over built up areas and no night flying, and no warbird or tiger moth options was too restrictive. I just fly a bit less than I could in a microlight.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Feb 6, 2012 10:55:41 GMT 12
The cost of . . . maintaining a PPL is growing exponentially Sure is. Did my BFR this morning. For three revision flights with an instructor plus the B-cat's fee and air craft hire no change out of $1100.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Feb 6, 2012 16:54:57 GMT 12
Blimey, was the logbook sticker gold embossed?
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