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Post by tfly on Feb 1, 2012 13:16:14 GMT 12
With the East Coast literally leaking oil and gas (quote from the industry - see link below) how do we intend to protect our interests? tvnz.co.nz/national-news/east-coast-literally-leaking-oil-and-gas-4688478OK so how about a few of these in RNZAF livery? Suitable replacement for the venerable A4? If not what do members suggest as a suitable (affordable) replacement to protect our fish stocks, trade routes and oil? Attachments:
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Post by baronbeeza on Feb 1, 2012 13:45:56 GMT 12
Didn't the Strike Wing go the way of the Norwegian blue ?
'''''''' VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised! '''''''
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Post by tfly on Feb 1, 2012 14:21:55 GMT 12
Well (don't mind the pun) if we have oil gushing out under our feet we should have e'nuff dosh to buy Australia!
My point here is twofold
1) With oil and other natural resources to protect how do we intend to protect our interest?
2) If (and I realise it is a BIG IF) we were to reinstate the Strike Wing what equipment would be suited to the task (especially taking into account our new found wealth and even closer defence ties with Australia)?
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Post by tfly on Feb 1, 2012 14:24:47 GMT 12
Personally I think the Rafale would look absolutely fantastic in RNZAF livery but would it be suitable and would we buy it?
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Post by Naki on Feb 1, 2012 14:34:11 GMT 12
Not going to happen..if a strike wing by some miracle did resurrect itself it would be more likely for various reasons to be F-16s, F-18 Super Hornets, F-35s or Gripens before Rafales.
I see that the Rafale has just scored its first export order from the Indian Air Force in one of the bigger orders of fighter aircraft (126).
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Post by beagle on Feb 1, 2012 15:57:24 GMT 12
I think most of us have given up on seeing a strike force with a kiwi on the side again.....
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Post by baronbeeza on Feb 1, 2012 16:15:58 GMT 12
tfly may be out of the loop. This is the same member that was asking about our terrorist response the other day. Different planet material. As for the new found wealth, it hasn't filtered through to my place yet. Some of us will remember when the exploration was going on in the Kapuni and Maui gas fields. All we had to do was send some nice models to the PM, Minister of Defence and a few others. Times were great, we soon had orders in for P-3's, C-130's, the UH-1 and the A-4.. just like that.  |
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Post by adzze on Feb 1, 2012 17:10:19 GMT 12
I think this will be our future combat wing platform:  |
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Post by strikemaster on Feb 1, 2012 17:52:37 GMT 12
It's a story that never fails to depress me. I agree with Beagle and Naki, isn't going to happen. The only way I can see it happening is if there is no choice. I.e. a war of decent scale that requires it and if that happens........ maybe we will become the RAF(NZ) again and get gifted another squadron.
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Feb 1, 2012 20:19:06 GMT 12
Protecting our new oil wealth?? Sounds like a Tui billboard waiting to happen ;D I suspect we'll end up with the Green party defence policy.... grow a REALLY large gorse hedge around our coastline to keep out the baddies  |
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Post by ngatimozart on Feb 1, 2012 20:35:18 GMT 12
Somewhere else I lurk in the shadows mentioned that the P8 is a definite because they realise that it is a necessity. That comment was made 6 months ago by senior NZ govt figure. With regard to the potential treasure that is possible we would be in a position to pay cash for a wing of F35s. Only if the polies negotiate fair and equitable royalaties and not give them away to their rich mates. The govt of what ever ilk would buy into a ACF because of the riches involved and that such reseources would make NZ potential target. Then there are the minerals buried in Fiordland. Minerals like gold, uranium, silver, etc. There appears to be a correlation between tectonic plate boundaries, hydrocarbons and heavy valuable minerals.
Another thing that is rarely mentioned at present is that fresh clean water is now a dwindling resource as well as food. A just released UN report states that by 2050 the planet will not be able to support the population of 9 billion in food or water using current resource management and sustainment practices. Think of all the fresh water that flows into the sea in Fiordland alone, without ever being used and how that would be highly attractive to those that won't have it.
On the climate side by 2100 it is projected that Australia will be drier than what it already is, so they will have to look at desalination plants for their urban areas. The Murray river is slowly drying up and carrying less water because a lot is lost to irrigation, when it is stored in open dams. Unfortunately a lot of that stored water is lost to evaporation. In NZ we believe that we will lose 75% of our glaciers by 2100. There are 3140 glaciers in NZ with all bar about four being in the South Island. That creates a water problem for the South Island because the glaciers comprise a large part of our fresh water storage.
All these potential hydrocarbon & valuable finds will be a huge boost for NZ Inc and we will need a good and viable Air Force and Navy to protect these gains. So I would suggest that a ACF would become a priority especially when funds become available and as energy, water and food shortages start to impact overseas. So lets dig and drill merrily away.
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Post by meo4 on Feb 1, 2012 20:57:43 GMT 12
I think the Air Force will want to get some more use out of the P3K2 before they are considered for replacement plus the Orions range 4000+ nm compared to the 1000+ nm for the P8 would be better suited to our large EEZ.
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Post by corsair67 on Feb 1, 2012 21:05:45 GMT 12
Several of these?  |
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Post by adzze on Feb 1, 2012 21:08:12 GMT 12
Is it a flying fox?
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Post by ngatimozart on Feb 1, 2012 21:09:31 GMT 12
I think this will be our future combat wing platform: Also come in white , On serious note I think the Air Force will want to get some more use out of the P3K2 before they are considered for replacement plus the Orions range 4000+ nm compared to the 1000+ nm for the P8 would be better suited to our large EEZ. That slightly < 4000nm is the ferry range for the P3K. Big difference between that and it's operational range. The RNZAF site states that the P3K operational range is "Radius of action of 1,850km (1,000NM) with 4 hours on station. Endurance of 15 hrs with two engines shut down to conserve fuel." www.airforce.mil.nz/about-us/aircraft/orion.htm The P8 Poseidon has range of 1200+ nm with 4 hours on station. www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/p8a/docs/P-8A_overview.pdf |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 21:13:20 GMT 12
The only down side to the P-8 is its turbo fans in my opinion. A lot noisier then the turbo props. You won't be able to loiter above them, above clouds, undetected with loud turbofans. Can't really hear a turboprop till its beside you nearly  |
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Post by beagle on Feb 2, 2012 5:00:55 GMT 12
Maybe they should modify the wing on the P-8 so that it has 2 big turbo props inboard for loitoring and 2 turbofans outboard for high speed to get to their search area.
With the bigger allowable loading weight, 5 Sqn will be able to carry more rations
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Post by Calum on Feb 2, 2012 10:03:38 GMT 12
The only down side to the P-8 is its turbo fans in my opinion. A lot noisier then the turbo props. You won't be able to loiter above them, above clouds, undetected with loud turbofans. Can't really hear a turboprop till its beside you nearly Considering the P-8 is going to be operating at above 10k feet this may not be such an issue. And the P-8 is the only credible new MPA currently flying, and at the beginning of its life cycle. Co Considering NZ is supposed to be a martime nation NZ needs a MPA that can do the full range of war fighting tasks (ASW, ASuW along with overland surveillance role). This is I don’t support the push for smaller aircraft solution similar what Australian Coastwatch use. I think the P-8 is IMHO a must have for a future (2020 onwards) RNZAF. MPA’s, converted from transports may appear cheaper on paper none that can do AsW/ASuW etc have been developed as yet, and any will likely be European so if they actually make production the numbers will be limited (and they’ll be European product.....not American). The good thing is that when the RNZAF finally has to replace the P-3k2 the P-8 should be a much better known capability. |
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Post by beagle on Feb 2, 2012 14:16:24 GMT 12
With the bigger allowable loading weight, 5 Sqn will be able to carry more rations Now that is a very good reason to get them! Maybe we could get Mc Donalds to do a bit of sponsorship and have a counter at the back doing burgers and the golden arches on the tail. A nice fee to help offset the purchase |
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mroz
Flying Officer
Posts: 59
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Post by mroz on Feb 2, 2012 21:02:30 GMT 12
..... On the climate side by 2100 it is projected that Australia will be drier than what it already is, so they will have to look at desalination plants for their urban areas. The Murray river is slowly drying up and carrying less water because a lot is lost to irrigation, when it is stored in open dams. ... of water in Australia - just lazy politicans who don't want to build the infrastructure to shift it south! |
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