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Post by slackie on Feb 17, 2012 12:40:09 GMT 12
Don't mean to pour cold water over the hard work that goes into organising these events, but there are some aspects of many shows that I think we can do without! Maybe some others may like to provide some feedback/feedforeward here for any budding organisers so that they don't fall into the same traps. In my list below I'm not referring to any show in particular, so please don't take any of these personnally... unless you recognise yourself!!!
Here's my list in no particular order (apart from maybe #1 is my top pet hate)...
1. Commentators that feel they must talk over a display when it is blatantly obvious they know NOTHING about what they are watching. If you don't know what's going on (particularly with some aerobatic displays) then don't make it up!! I know 95% of the ice cream lickers out there won't know you're making it up, but for the few out there that DO know what manoeuvre has just been flown it is annoying to have it described as something completely different!!
2. Poor timetabling of displays. Putting like displays close together... I remember a WOW a few years back when poor old Rob Silich (I think) put on great aeros display in the Red Bull Pitts from QN.... trouble was he followed Jurgis in his Sukhoi and paled in comparison!! Jurgis is a hard act to follow for anyone, but come on... that was just unfair!!!
3. Flags/granstands/tents on the flightline. I loose count how many photos have the subject aircraft obscured by bloody flags, etc... and before you jump in... yes I know I should stump up and buy a Gold Pass, but please remember that I have actually still paid to get in and although not an elite photographer or Gold Pass holder I should still be able to get a decent view somewhere without camping up at the flightline fence only to loose my spot when nature calls!
4. Queues to get in/out. Not much can be done about this realistically, but a good traffic plan should help out!
5. Concentration on Warbirds. This might annoy a few out there, but not every show needs to have the same Warbirds' displays. Nothing against those that fly them and display them well, but once they've done maybe a canopy to pass, canopy away pass, a loop, barrell roll, maybe a "dirty pass", and a high speed pass, then I'm happy that I've seen the aircraft... more is just a waste of airshow funds that could be spent on another different display. I found myself (at the recent TG show) wondering why there were 2 P40s following each other around the sky in a prolonged tailchase... seemed unnecessary. Don't get me wrong, I think Liz flew the second one well, and I love the P40, but I felt like I watched the same display twice! Mind you, I could have watched the Hunter all afternoon!!
I know I have a few more but, as age is creeping up, they have completely slipped my mind.... I add them later as I think of them!!
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Post by slackie on Feb 17, 2012 12:41:42 GMT 12
Oh and I don't mind if people disagree... it's a free country and I guess the majority rules!! Happy to "sit down and shut up" if I'm barking up the wrong tree!!
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Post by slackie on Feb 17, 2012 12:58:28 GMT 12
Re #1
Mind you I did chuckle at Richard's reply when Jeff (commentator) asked him what would be in the Pitts Model 12 display at Tauranga.
"Well... I'm gunna take off, probably into wind.... do some aerobatics... and hopefully land back into wind again!"
GOLD!
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Post by strikemaster on Feb 17, 2012 13:24:31 GMT 12
Sunburnt face, I really hate that. I expect over the next month I'll be copping plenty of sunburn.
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Post by mumbles on Feb 17, 2012 13:29:02 GMT 12
1. Commentators that feel they must talk over a display when it is blatantly obvious they know NOTHING about what they are watching. If you don't know what's going on (particularly with some aerobatic displays) then don't make it up!! I know 95% of the ice cream lickers out there won't know you're making it up, but for the few out there that DO know what manoeuvre has just been flown it is annoying to have it described as something completely different!! On a related note, can someone who knows someone please get the caller for the TVAL shows to stop referring to "Arvo" and "Sopworth" aircraft (unless I seriously missed something and that is how they are supposed to be pronounced). It is the only annoying thing about what is generally a superb event. Technical errors by people who should know better in pre-prepared commentary script also annoy me (like the one accompanying Mustang ZK-TAF's display in recent years, which implied the Mustang was the fastest and most heavily armed fighter of the European theatre). Fact checking is such a simple thing to do. The above said I generally ignore commentary, and am happy to find a quiet corner of the crowd line out of earshot. Also speakers should always, ALWAYS be behind the crowd and not on the crowdline. Also agreed with the comment about Gold Pass enclosures. Not everyone can afford them, and while I dont have a problem with them being at display centre, I do get irritated when the rest of the paying punters can't get an unobstructed panorama at the crowd-line. |
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 17, 2012 13:45:56 GMT 12
...The above said I generally ignore commentary, and am happy to find a quiet corner of the crowd line out of earshot. Also speakers should always, ALWAYS be behind the crowd and not on the crowdline. As I believe has been said here before, the cost of doing that is considerable - I assume the cables have to be buried, and the stands need to not be trip hazards. How much of an issue is this are at Omaka? Are the stands far enough back to minimise blockage? |
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Post by shorty on Feb 17, 2012 13:47:21 GMT 12
I would like for the crowd lines to have a slight curve in them so that the people at the ends have a chance to see at least a bit of the ground theatre, as it is, only the gold pass punters get to see it. Even if you are in the front row at the ends you can see bugger all.
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Post by baz62 on Feb 17, 2012 13:54:34 GMT 12
I would like for the crowd lines to have a slight curve in them so that the people at the ends have a chance to see at least a bit of the ground theatre, as it is, only the gold pass punters get to see it. Even if you are in the front row at the ends you can see bugger all. Must............resist..........urge........to ........................... comment....................on............................poster's..............................nickname.........................arrrrggghhhhhhhhhhh (brain stroke like squish sound and then thud of body hitting ground) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by thebrads on Feb 17, 2012 14:14:12 GMT 12
1. As an avid RC modeller, i have to gripe about RC models are often invited, and displayed well by NZ top pilots, but they are more often than not given crap positions and timeframes, and are the first thing to get cancelled when the programme runs behind schedule due to poor programme planning. The exception: Frazer Briggs put on an absolutely world class display at WoW 08 and had the crowd speechless, followed by the largest applause of the day. This should be the norm, not the exception.
2. I will say nothing other than weather presenters should stay weather presenters. The best commentator i have come across lately (and i don't go to many) is the female from the RNZAF. (sorry can't recall name).
3. The mock attack. Absolutely over it. Will someone please come up with some better finale than a Me108 and the Harvards getting shot down by whatever WW2 fighters are onsite?
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Post by pjw4118 on Feb 17, 2012 14:32:27 GMT 12
And the FOOD, except at Omaka , its the South Island and they do have standards down there
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Post by Peter Lewis on Feb 17, 2012 15:00:41 GMT 12
Two points rile me:
The inevitable parking of visiting but non-participating aircraft beyond the black stump over on the far side of the airfield. Sure they may (but not always) provide a shuttlebus for transport there and back, but this area is always under the airshow display area. Therefore it is a no-go zone during the entire airshow. Thus those who arrive by air must lug every bit of gear that they just might need during the day with them for the duration. If you drive to the event you can pop back to your car at any time during the day to pick up/drop off umbrellas, chairs, sunscreen, raincoat and whatever, but those who chose to arrive by air must lug everything with them all day. Third class citizens.
Somewhat related to the above - the assumption that everyone arrives by car. I have been to airshows where the food and drink area is cordoned off, and entry is gained by purchasing a wine glass at the gate. The price of this glass is fairly steep, as the idea is that you pay for the glass but the wine is free (some quirk of the licencing regulations). When I pointed out to the fellow at the gate that the minute I sip any wine I'm grounded for the rest of the day and therefore can't fly my plane home, he had absolutely no idea what I was talking about. Either I starve, or buy the glass and eventually throw it away unused.
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 17, 2012 15:23:17 GMT 12
... Somewhat related to the above - the assumption that everyone arrives by car. I have been to airshows where the food and drink area is cordoned off, and entry is gained by purchasing a wine glass at the gate. The price of this glass is fairly steep, as the idea is that you pay for the glass but the wine is free (some quirk of the licencing regulations). Was this in NZ? I thought it was quite hard for a business to give alcohol away in order to avoid licencing requirements. Some clothing store tried it, and was told by the court they needed to get a licence. Perhaps it was easier to apply for one licence for the entire area, rather than several suppliers needing one each. It's a terrible approach in any case, I don't drink during the day at airshows, why should I pay a fee for getting access to food? |
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Post by efliernz on Feb 17, 2012 15:23:33 GMT 12
thebrads above nailed my feelings (since I am also a modeller). The weatherman whould definitely stick to weather. The comment about the Pitts display being followed by Jurgis... I was at Oshkosh 2008 and it was my first time there. I'm very much into sport avation (but I love aeros) and I would have loved to have seen more sport aircraft displaying at such an event. Watching world-class Extras/Edges/Sukhois was great BUT they had 5 in a row and (God help me I never thought I would say this) it got boring! Simply poor (or lazy) planning. Nuff said... we have a few shows I'm looking forward to still to come this year  Pete |
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Post by Naki on Feb 17, 2012 15:34:16 GMT 12
I have to agree with the opening post...tents etc along the flightline in the 2010 Tauranga Air Show was real turn off for me - lot better this year.
Aircaft tucked away where you can't get a decent picture is another thing that annoys. I would gladly pay a bit extra to get up and close to some aircraft. The Friday at Wanaka (or any practise day of other air shows) is great - you can get closer and no crowds.
All the side show stuff I could do without but I guess an airshow has to pay its way.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 17, 2012 15:59:40 GMT 12
As I believe has been said here before, the cost of doing that is considerable - I assume the cables have to be buried, and the stands need to not be trip hazards. At Whenuapai airshows I've been to, the speakers are always behind the crowd and the cables surely cannot be burried as it is all concrete apron. I think they string them over the biuldings - that could surely be done with rows of tents too and the speaker poles between tents so they are not in people's way. It is far better than having the poles in your eyeline. You stills photographers hate it almost as much as we videographers do when a line of poles are put up in front of the crowd and your lense. At lesst you can easily photoshop a pole out if it's not obscuring the plane. A whole tentline in front of the crowd like Tauranga 2010 is also really bad planning. Thankful to hear they listened to the criticism and recitified that in 2012. I don't mind if there's a Gold Pass tent on the flightline but so long as everyone else gets a fair go too at seeing what is actually happening. I agree totally with Shorty regarding the "ground theatre" stuff. I have had trouble seeing what is going on even from the elevated height of media trailers. I personally feel the ground battles are superflous and pretty pointless at airshows. There are some great commentators out there, Graham Orphan, Peter Mac, and the RNZAF lady are my favourites. |
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Post by flyjoe180 on Feb 17, 2012 16:07:48 GMT 12
I haven't been to an airshow since the last big Ardmore one. Shift work has caused me to miss most of them, but I would not pay to attend one unless it was something very different from the same routines and participants from the last 20 years. I would love to get to the Masterton and Omaka shows but have yet to make it.
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Post by Bruce on Feb 17, 2012 16:40:12 GMT 12
At Tauranga they had the speakers behind the crowdline with little generators and radio receivers so each pair was self contained without cables through the public area. the geometry wasnt quite right though so quality wasnt so hot. Then again, Grayson was on the Mic, so I didnt miss much! my little pet peeve is a continuous block of displays without a lunch break. At Tga the Corsair display was when I was coming back from the food stalls with my hands full of hotdog and chips. When I put my chips down to sort out the camera the wind blew them over, so they became seagull food!  All the organisers fault! the problem is, with a lunch break, everyone would crowd to the food stalls all at once, so really there isnt an answer - maybe they could put the more boring displays, such as an Auster at the time that people need a break... |
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Post by efliernz on Feb 17, 2012 16:45:04 GMT 12
my little pet peeve is a continuous block of displays without a lunch break. At Tga the Corsair display was when I was coming back from the food stalls with my hands full of hotdog and chips. When I put my chips down to sort out the camera the wind blew them over, so they became seagull food! All the organisers fault! the problem is, with a lunch break, everyone would crowd to the food stalls all at once, so really there isnt an answer - maybe they could put the more boring displays, such as an Auster at the time that people need a break... They got that right at Omaka  |
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Post by Bruce on Feb 17, 2012 16:46:59 GMT 12
And the FOOD, except at Omaka , its the South Island and they do have standards down there the food at Tauranga this year was pretty dern good - I only brought the standard hotdog and chips once - Ha d a really nice Venison, Bacon and Egg burger and a woodfired Pizza at other times. |
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Post by slackie on Feb 17, 2012 16:57:27 GMT 12
I would like for the crowd lines to have a slight curve in them so that the people at the ends have a chance to see at least a bit of the ground theatre, as it is, only the gold pass punters get to see it. Even if you are in the front row at the ends you can see bugger all. Must............resist..........urge........to ........................... comment....................on............................poster's..............................nickname.........................arrrrggghhhhhhhhhhh (brain stroke like squish sound and then thud of body hitting ground) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hahahaha!!! Just about wet myself reading this post!! Well done Baz! Gotta get to Omaka show sometime... only major NZ show I haven't been to... but on the international list is AirVenture and Reno. |
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All the organisers fault! 
