Wartime RNZAF Mustangs

[Dave Homewood]

I was thinking about how several of the Corsair pilots I have tlaked with have mentioned they were preparing to convert to Mustangs and would head up to Borneo in them, just before the atomic bomb was dropped and the war ended.

It makes me wonder about the what-ifs of that scenario if the atom bombs had never been dropped. Several things come to mind.

Would all of our fighter squadrons have converted to Mustangs? There were twelve operational fighter squadrons in August 1945 I believe. We really only had enough Mustangs at that time to maybe equip one squadrons and the conversion unit. More were on order of course but I wonder how long it would take to re-equip all the units and retrain the pilots. And also if all twelve squadrons would be retained operational, or maybe some would be cut. Maybe in fact they would have created extra squadrons as they had been cutting back the bomber force so may have been heading toward the single seat fighter-bombers more.

I think it was 200 Mustangs had been ordered but that may well have been the first of several batches. After all without the atomic bombs the Japanese would have fought on fiercely for a long time. Maybe the war would have extended to a point where even the Mustangs were replaced, maybe with jets...

Which squadron would have converted first?

Which squadron would have gone up first to Borneo?

I assume they wouldn't have ferried their fighters all that way from NZ so the plan must have been to convert, fly up to Borneo or somewhere close in a Dakota, and take over newly assembled P-51D's there?

Would they have been under the control of the RAAF or USAAF or USMC?

No doubt being closer to the enemy fighter forces that the Corsair units had been, the RNZAF Mustang guys will have seen a lot more air to air combat, and no doubt a few more aces would have been made, and the 100 kill mark they desired would have been well and truly passed perhaps.

I assume the Mustangs would have worn RNZAF Pacific roundels but I wounder if the RNZAF would have painted them blue like the Corsairs. After all a lot of the Corsairs were repainted in blue rather than stripped so they must have considered it a good colour to stick with.

I wonder what other great RNZAF nose arts would have evolved around the RNZAF Mustangs?

Does anyone know what places the RNZAF was intending to be based at when they arrived in Borneo?

Lot's of what-if possibilities.

[baronbeeza]

There would not have been too much in Borneo then, there is not much more now. The oil installations near Balikpapan attracted a lot of attention from both sides.
The Aussies must have had that area back under control by then. The next possible area could be in the North.
I would have thought much of the rest of the island would have literally been jungle back then. Clear-felling and fires have changed the landscape dramatically.

I know we are talking what if's but the Soviet influence would have to be factored in also. The whole war may have been about to take an unexpected turn.

[Dave Homewood]

Not necessarily. Stalin might not have declared war on Japan had he not been told about the A-bombs. That is the only reason Truman told him, to convince him to side up against Japan.

[errolmartyn]

Actually, Stalin had announced at the earlier Yalta Conference (Feb 1945) that the USSR would commence hostilities against the Japanese within 90 days of the end of the war in Europe. They did exactly that, just, on 8 August 1945 and nuetralised 40 Japanese divisions within six days.

Japanese historian Hatano Sumio commented that as a result of this, and the USSR's participation in the later Potsdam Declaration, 'in this sense, the Soviet entry into the war had a greater effect on the decision by the Japanese leaders to end the Pacific war on 14 August than the dropping of atomic bombs on 6 and 9 August.' (The Oxford Companion to the Second World War)

"Not necessarily. Stalin might not have declared war on Japan had he not been told about the A-bombs. That is the only reason Truman told him, to convince him to side up against Japan."

Stalin knew of the American Atomic bomb programme well before Truman did. Truman was vice-president for 83 days but during this time had little contact with Roosevelt and was not informed of the programme until he became president upon the death of Roosevelt in April 1945.

Errol

[flyjoe180]

I recall we discussed the Soviet entry into the Japan theatre a while back. But Dave's questions regarding the what-if situation of the war being prolonged is an interesting one with regards to RNZAF equipment. Presuming a protracted invasion effort, would jets and the like really actually have been necessary? The Japanese air arms were pretty exhausted by the August 1945. Allied air superiority would have been only a matter of a short period of time?

Would there have been a need for the air to air capability of the P-51? I would have thought that the P&W R2800 on the F4U would have been more durable in the heat of the tropics, being air cooled., and therefore easier to maintain.

[Luther Moore]

Whats with the checkered pattern on P-51's? They should call the NZ P-51's ''All Black Tails''

[corsair67]

I am sure that I have read somewhere that the RNZAF was expecting to take 370 P-51 Mustangs into service.

[baz62]

Feb 25, 2012 17:00:21 GMT 12 Luther Moore said:

Whats with the checkered pattern on P-51's? They should call the NZ P-51's ''All Black Tails''

Do you mean on RNZAF Mustangs? They are Territorial Air Force markings colour coded as :
eg:
Blue white for Auckland, Red Black for Canterbury and so on.

[shorty]

We went to P-51s because our procurement agency (if that's the right term) was switched from the USN to the USAAC.
I doubt that they would have been painted blue, that was the standard colour for Navy aircraft but by the stage that ours were ordered natural metal was the scheme for AAC aircraft.

[Luther Moore]

Feb 25, 2012 18:48:34 GMT 12 baz62 said:

Feb 25, 2012 17:00:21 GMT 12 Luther Moore said:

Whats with the checkered pattern on P-51's? They should call the NZ P-51's ''All Black Tails''

Do you mean on RNZAF Mustangs? They are Territorial Air Force markings colour coded as :
eg:
Blue white for Auckland, Red Black for Canterbury and so on.

Most P-51's have the checkered pattern somewhere on them.

[baz62]

Its not just Mustangs, look at enough photos of wartime (and postwar and even pre war) you'll find Checker patterns everywhere, and a certain RNZAF display team even has them on their engine cowlings. (But the name of the team hasn't anything to do with the Checker pattern! Bet thats got ya thinking ;D )
Diamond markings come up a bit too.

[Dave Homewood]

You mean chequer pattern, in correct parlance.