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Post by camtech on Jun 10, 2009 21:24:43 GMT 12
Finally managed to get these scanned First is NZ1705 taking off from Hobsonville Next, the same aircraft in the air Now, NZ1706 after her accident as outlined above
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jun 10, 2009 22:12:04 GMT 12
Great pics there Les, thanks.
I note that adfserials has the c/ns of NZ1702 and NZ1703 the wrong way around. ZK-DBU (ex-NZ1702) is listed on the current CAA website as c/n 2096. This means that NZ1702 would have been c/n 2096 and therefore NZ1703 was c/n 2095. adfserials lists them wrongly.
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Post by agalbraith on Jun 10, 2009 22:14:33 GMT 12
Ouch! Great photo's
I wonder what an Auster was like to fly with floats fitted.................fairly sluggish I would imagine. I see that she had the larger fin and rudder fitted when the floats were installed.
Cheers Anthony
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Post by shorty on Jun 11, 2009 9:26:39 GMT 12
As the Austers were bought as engineless airframes would it be a correct assumption that they were fitted with engines ex Tiger Moth stocks? Would this have applied to the cowls too or are they are a specific Auster design and therefore supplied with the airframes?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 11, 2009 10:58:53 GMT 12
What is that strapped to the belly of NZ1705 between the floats? Was it a luggage pannier or something? Note that there is a stripe on the floats in the first picture and not in the scond. I wonder what colour it was. Looks like red or orange.
I guess the Austers were the only RNZAF floatplanes ever? Did they operate these off the lakes round Rotorua when they had Austers and Harvards posted there for the forest protection or were they using only wheeled ones then? I guess their main role as floatplanes was naval co-operation?
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Post by shorty on Jun 11, 2009 11:20:18 GMT 12
The item under the aircraft is a fuel tank holding 13 3/4 imp gallon. Necesary because of the sloped firewall caused by the change from the Cirrus Minor to the Gypsy Major reduced the standard fuel capacity.The filler neck can be seen on the port side behind the strut attachment. Only one set of floats was purchased and the aircraft were used for converting pilots from landplanes to seaplanes, and as a spotter for the navy, mainly with 6 Squadron.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 11, 2009 12:39:14 GMT 12
Thanks Shorty. I never realised our Austers had non-standard engines. So they took over the role that the Walrus had provided previously in essence then.
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Post by shorty on Jun 11, 2009 13:51:19 GMT 12
Not really non standard engines Dave, the earlier Austers (the J1 Autocrats) were produced with Cirrus Minors, by the time they got to the J5 models they were fitted with Gypsy Majors. The Auster family tree is more like a gooseberry bush and it can be quite a mission to understand it all. Presumably they went from Cirrus to Gypsy for two reasons, an extra 30 hp and the availability (and therefore cost)
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Post by baz62 on Jun 11, 2009 15:35:15 GMT 12
The item under the aircraft is a fuel tank holding 13 3/4 imp gallon. Necesary because of the sloped firewall caused by the change from the Cirrus Minor to the Gypsy Major reduced the standard fuel capacity.The filler neck can be seen on the port side behind the strut attachment. Only one set of floats was purchased and the aircraft were used for converting pilots from landplanes to seaplanes, and as a spotter for the navy, mainly with 6 Squadron. Yes my MK5 Auster had that tank too (you'll remember that shorty) with the 0-290 Lycoming (used on the MK4 and 5 range) Baz ;D
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jun 11, 2009 21:05:04 GMT 12
Not to mention that the Cirrus engine was pretty gutless in the Auster. I once flew Cirrus-powered Autocrat ZK-AUX off Matamata airfield two-up, and for a moment thought we weren't going to make it (and you know the acreage of Matamata!)
Well done guys, we now have a complete set of RNZAF Austers on this thread, even if '06 is bent.
Probably the first time ever all of them have been in one place.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 11, 2009 22:24:05 GMT 12
Indeed good to see tham all. But we still have to find the float dimensions for Shorty.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jun 14, 2009 18:12:21 GMT 12
agalbraith and camtech, check your PMs please.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jun 19, 2009 21:20:27 GMT 12
Can any one help me with the dimensions of the floats used with the Austers? From the Auster experts: Apparently the Auster Company were involved in the Queen Bee (DH82A target drone) project, and built floats. They developed floats to fit the Auster aircraft from this involvement. The floats supplied to NZ with the J-5s were two sets, built by Auster themselves (I always thought just one set were supplied). The Auster R2400 float as supplied to the RNZAF with the J/5s was 17 feet in length, possibly just a fraction under.
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Post by shorty on Jun 20, 2009 12:12:23 GMT 12
Thanks for that, I had been scaling it off tha side view I posted of NZ 1701 being hosed down and got close to that . I'm building a R/C model to take to a float fly in a couple of months time and ,wanting a RNZAF type, picked on the Auster as being the quickest to do (plus I had plans for a J5). Like the full size I want to have it interchangeable. Now all I have to do is pull finger out and get it built in time.
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Post by baz62 on Jun 20, 2009 12:33:58 GMT 12
hey Shorty post a photo of it we'd love to see it!
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Post by shorty on Jul 6, 2009 19:50:37 GMT 12
Can any one help me with the dimensions of the floats used with the Austers? From the Auster experts: Apparently the Auster Company were involved in the Queen Bee (DH82A target drone) project, and built floats. They developed floats to fit the Auster aircraft from this involvement. The floats supplied to NZ with the J-5s were two sets, built by Auster themselves (I always thought just one set were supplied). The Auster R2400 float as supplied to the RNZAF with the J/5s was 17 feet in length, possibly just a fraction under. I too believed that we only got the one set of floats, and have never seen reference to a second set. delving deeper I wonder if the "second" set were the ones used on the Antarctic Auster, they seem to have a different strut arrangement that the ones used on the J5s. The J5 floats were sold to Australia, what became of the Antarctic floats? Or are they all one and the same?
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Post by shorty on Sept 16, 2009 21:32:13 GMT 12
A question for the Auster people. I have only just noticed (as I build the rudder for my model) that when the floats are fitted the Austers have a aerodynamically balanced rudder fitted (i.e part of the rudder projects in front of the fin) but when the same aircraft is on wheels the rudder hinge line goes all the way to the top. Anyone throw any light on this? I wanted to have my model with interchangeable floats and wheels and had worked out the floats and the sub fin and it looks like the whole fin and rudder needs to be different. It's getting harder!
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Post by baz62 on May 16, 2012 13:00:31 GMT 12
Yes looks like they fitted the big fin and rudder for the float setup. Not too big a job to go back to the small fin and rudder again but why would you want to?
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Post by davidd on Aug 23, 2012 15:50:51 GMT 12
To go back to the very beginnng of this particular thread ...... In case anyone is interested, the unit which operated the three surviving RNZAF Austers (1702, 1704, 1707) was the Air Reconnaissance Flight under command of F/L Alan Dyer, and based at Hobsonville, formed 1 July 1964 (the three a/c arrived from the south previous day). The two J/5s had been based at Wigram till mid 1963, mainly for the use of CFS for ATC flying scholarship courses, by FTS for Army pilot ab initio courses, for AOP pilot refresher courses, and for "normal" Army co-op work. In late May 1963 F/L Dyer was posted to Ohakea as "OC Auster Flight" (presume this Flight affiliated in some way with 42 Squadron) but the aircraft did not make the move north till about September that year (according to the big RNZAF aircraft allotment book). Seems as though the name and role of this Auster Flight were not well understood, thus the new name in July 1964. Apparently this unit was originally to have been called "No. 1 Air Reconnaissance Flight", but all the Unit History pages of this Flight are headed up simply as "Air Reconnaissance Flight". As there was only one such flight, any identifying number would have been superfluous anyway. The Air reconnaissance Flight frequently "borrowed" the Whenuapai STation Harvard for continuation training and miscellaneous jobs during this early period. In their earliest days in NZ, the Auster J/5s were usually based at Rongotai, or Ohakea (usually with the GP Flight, renamed 42 Squadron from March 1950), although they were also based temporarily at Wigram on many occasions for the purpose of training Army AOP pilots, on both ab initio and refresher courses, and twice they were based at Taieri for AOP courses (Sept/Oct 1952, two officers on ab initio course, commencing with Tiger Moths, up to 30 hours per officer on Austers) and refresher course for 4 officer in April/May 1955, 40 hours per officer). By May of 1957, the three surviving J/5s (1702, 1703, 1704) were permanently based at Wigram, at which time they acquired the yellow "T" (for training) bands. However as previously at Ohakea, they often sortied to various parts of the country "on official business", mostly for the numerous army exercises. With the loss of 1703 in August 1959 at "Little Malaya" (Oxford), three became two J/5s. Meanwhile the orphan Antarctic aircraft 1707 completed an extended overhaul and finally arrived at Ohakea on 17/9/62, ex Wigram. The two surviving J/5s at Wigram were finally allotted to Ohakea in June 1963, but did not arrive at their new home till August and September that year. On 1 May 1965 the Air Reconnaissance Flight was administratively merged with the Transport Support Unit (three Bristol Freighters) to form the new "No. 3 (Battlefield Support) Squadron", although the Austers remained based at Hobsonville while the Bristols remained at Whenuapai. They were of course soon joined by the first Bell 47Gs (soon to be renamed Sioux), and from mid-1966 the first Iroquois arrived. NZ1707 was soon written off (to eventually end up in RNZAF Museum) and the two J/5s soldiered on till 1968. David D
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Post by baz62 on Aug 23, 2012 16:00:12 GMT 12
Thanks for that David a very interesting read.
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