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Post by obiwan27 on Mar 6, 2012 21:18:29 GMT 12
Such hypocrisy from Goff and heaven help the NZDF if the Greens ever get into government.  www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6534113/Defence-bill-about-making-cuts-says-GoffWhat the hell does Kennedy Graham think a military defence force is for? Primarily they train to fight, all this other crap is extra.  It really steams me how badly the NZDF and Air Force in particular have been screwed over by NZ politicians over the past 15-20 years. Soon there'll be no combat capability left. Do NZ governments just plain not understand what their responsibilities are when it comes to providing a viable defence capability for their country? I suspect the obvious answer is yes. |
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Post by nige on Mar 6, 2012 22:15:45 GMT 12
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Post by nige on Mar 6, 2012 22:34:37 GMT 12
From the Stuff article:
Huh? From that rhetoric it appears Kennedy Graham hasn't even read the recent Defence Reviews - nor kept up with the trends over the last decade or two (post Cold War), which is the emergence of intra-state conflicts and the need to use combat skills to stabalise and restore the peace. (Sorry can't be arsed looking up and quoting properly from the Reviews).
It appears Mr Graham is still living in the 'halcyon days' of the post-Cold War 1990's when the then Opposition (more or less the same lot) used the then Defence Beyond 2000 inquiry to re-orientate Defence away from combat and into peacekeeping.
Certainly Labour in 1999 took that inquiry findings as the basis of their incoming defence policy re-orientation, but even Labour realised during their term the world wasn't as benign as they thought and sent combat troops to Afghanistan, the Solomons & back to Timor (and cuddled back up to the USA etc).
Personally I would ignore Mr Graham and the Greens, like spoilers like Gordon Campbell and Nicky Hager, they yearn for these benign pasts (to justify their fantasy's about dis-arming Defence), despite the trends and evidence of an uncertain multi-polar and diverging, resource competitive world discrediting their fantasy world view.
For NZ, the strategic balance in East Asia is shifting and that is impacting on trade, diplomatic efforts and ultimately defence.
Whilst the Greens, Campbell, Hager et-al, wish NZ to emphasis the trade(?) and diplomatic aspects rather than Defence, with East Asia, they strike me as not acknowledging or not comprehending the fact that NZDF/NZGovt efforts to assist (other like minded nations) with stabalising SE Asia post WW2 has helped make that area relatively conflict free and wealthy. (And spin-offs for NZ are more trade, tourism and education opportunties i.e. them to us - something that can only ever be achieved when we have peace and stability, because of having a 'big-stick' in the background rather than because of unilateral disarmament).
Just because China is re-awakening as a power doesn't mean to say NZ and like minded Govts should ditch defence ties and efforts. On the contrary NZ ought to be building them up and increasing its presence - these efforts are appreciated by SE Asian nations (who are cautious to these power shifts as per their history over the last many hundreds of years etc & are wishing for and courting the USA to counter-balance any power shifts going badly again). I think as a relatively young country - NZ that is - this is all lost or not well understood by these new generations of liberal elites here, whom see everything in the prism of post 1840 NZ colonisation and isolationism effects etc.
As for Goff, alas he lost my respect (whatever little he had) due to his flip-flops, inconsistencies and politiking with Defence & SIS, so his viewpoints bear little credibility these days. As they did when Leader of the Opposition in recent years.
As for Labour + Greens one day being in coaltion, sure that might happen, but I suspect if/when in power they will diverge (when it comes to Defence etc) when the reality of being in power impacts on their idealism and fantasy world-views.
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Post by hawkeye on Mar 6, 2012 22:40:41 GMT 12
Bling Bling - so now we actually have one emperor with his new clothes - there is no such thing as the NZDF anymore, its a NZ Mil Coporate. Whilst we focus on the beans and pennys we have lost sight of our business - TO KILL PEOPLE AND WRECK THEIR STUFF. Everything else is a side effort.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Mar 7, 2012 10:03:59 GMT 12
I really cannot see how saving $400 million a year is effective, when the Government are borrowing $300 million a week. I also see the Police are having to make cuts. The Police Association have said that making cuts now to muscle on the streets will have its negative effects in a few years time. How far can a Defence organisation or Police Force be cut before they simply cannot do their jobs?
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Post by Chris F on Mar 7, 2012 10:18:15 GMT 12
I seen on one news last night about Antartica and with the Treaty and how other countries in future years may well wish to drill for oil and mine for minerals and as such may walk away from the Treaty.
It was reported that if another country wanted our part of the ice NZ would simply walk away as it could not defend it......Great.....
So there's your answer if any country put a Carrier force off our coast we would simply put up the white flag!
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Post by flyjoe180 on Mar 7, 2012 10:21:19 GMT 12
It's like making a Super Rugby team up of 50kg players because they eat less, wear smaller clothes, and therefore cost less to run. But they have no clout and will get smashed on the field.
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Post by Chris F on Mar 7, 2012 10:26:57 GMT 12
Flyjoe....this is a fantastic country it really is but we need to make it a safe and welcoming place for all!
At the moment the Government is only interested in getting back into surplus and will cut and burn anything to get to that objective!
It's a sad state of affairs...one thing I would not want to work for any Govt department at the moment...here today gone tomorrow!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 7, 2012 13:32:31 GMT 12
We're going to have to keep and defend our land in Antartica with all we have got, because when all the ice melts and the sea level rises, all you lot who live in low lying coastal places like Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin and Tauranga, etc will have to move down to that Antarctic land as your place goes under the sea. Meanwhile sunny Cambridge will become a lovely tropical island paradise.  |
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Post by strikemaster on Mar 7, 2012 13:57:32 GMT 12
Lol, there's Kiwi optimism, Dave.
Raptor, if the Labour govt gets back in then the country will be in real danger of going the same way the US went. Much as I hate the Nat's, its the lesser of two evils. As Churchill said, We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
I always maintained that increasing tax was counter-productive.
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Post by Chris F on Mar 7, 2012 15:05:12 GMT 12
strikemaster...totally agree!
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Post by Peter Lewis on Mar 7, 2012 18:41:54 GMT 12
Meanwhile sunny Cambridge will become a lovely tropical island paradise. You left out the word 'waterfront' there Dave. |
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