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Post by Dave Homewood on May 23, 2015 16:08:58 GMT 12
Not only are they the youngest and most junior service, they have contributed the least to NZ as well. These days they are pretty much pointless.
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Post by phil on May 23, 2015 22:20:58 GMT 12
That's the same kind of ignorant attitude that tried to say the A4s never did anything.
The Navy is one of our main contributions to FPDA.
It has also deployed a number of times to the gulf over the years, and more recently to anti piracy operations.
They provide support for other govt agencies, such as fisheries and DOC. I'd say they contribute to NZ as much as the other two services.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 23, 2015 23:10:33 GMT 12
Going to the Gulf and patrolling for pirates is all contributing to the well being of other nations, with minimal contribution at all to New Zealand's well being. In fact when we only have two frigates for our supposed defence sticking one of them on the other side of the world for six months seems pretty bloody stupid to me.
The other roles, fisheries and DOC work, they proved in the last whaling season how ineffectual they are in protecting whales in the Southern Ocean, yet again. Personally I think they should ditch the idea of having frigates and re-equip with smaller, faster vessels that can be more effective in our own waters, now stooging around in the bloody Gulf trying to win some officers a gong.
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Post by phil on May 24, 2015 14:24:49 GMT 12
Patrolling the gulf contributes to NZ in the same way as OP Crib deployments to Afghanistan did, or A4 deployments to Asia did.
The NZDF is not all about defending NZ soil.
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Post by phil82 on May 24, 2015 14:51:21 GMT 12
The RNZN is in fact the Senior Service in NZ because its antecedence was that it was formerly a NZ Station of the Royal Navy and as such is neither the youngest service in NZ nor the most junior. Its official formation was one of change of status rather than birth! As we know, the RN was doing it's thing long before airyplanes were invented!
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Post by pepe on May 24, 2015 15:11:42 GMT 12
Actually I think it was the toothfish they were trying to protect, but I get your drift (pardon the pun). If your views are such, now is the perfect time to present them with the Defence White Paper underway: www.defence.govt.nz/defence-policy/dwp2015/dwp2015-presentation.pdfAs one of NZDF's roles is "to protect New Zealand's wider interests (including trade) by contributing to international peace and security and the international rule of law" then the deployments of both the frigate and P-3K aircraft to the Gulf could be seen as satisfying this (albeit in a small way). I doubt a "gong" for someone is the objective. I guess one of the advantages of having good defence relationships/agreements with our closest neighbours is that it helps mitigate the absence of a major unit from local waters. Personally I believe all the services have equally important roles to play and certainly seem to cooperate and work together much better in recent years.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 24, 2015 22:49:36 GMT 12
The RNZN is in fact the Senior Service in NZ because its antecedence was that it was formerly a NZ Station of the Royal Navy and as such is neither the youngest service in NZ nor the most junior. Its official formation was one of change of status rather than birth! As we know, the RN was doing it's thing long before airyplanes were invented! So based on your principle, the New Zealand Army which formed in the 1840's an claim antecedence to the British Army from which it formed alongside and with, which goes back to around 1645, whereas the Royal Navy was formed in 1660. However, looking at the services as stand-alone New Zealand forces, not trying to claim any cribbed history from previous foreign forces, establishment of the NZ Army dates back to the 1840's, and the Naval Defence Act 1913 formally established the New Zealand Naval Forces in 1913. So clearly the NZ Army is the older and thus more senior service, once again.
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Post by pepe on May 25, 2015 10:05:37 GMT 12
Actually I believe the first "standing" English navy was created by Henry VIII in the early 1500's. The Spanish Armada certainly had some issues with them in 1588. The title "Royal" came with Charles II in 1660. As you have correctly stated the first standing army came with Oliver Cromwell in 1645. The "New Model Army".
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 25, 2015 13:29:46 GMT 12
I still don't see how people think the RNZN can claim Royal Navy history. They became a separate stand alone unit completely unconnected from the Royal Navy on the 1st of October 1941. After that their only connection was supplying men to the RN just as the RNZAF supplied men to the RAF.
It would be like TVNZ trying to claim they go back to the 1920's because they modelled themselves on the BBC.
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