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Post by ngatimozart on Mar 12, 2013 18:50:00 GMT 12
They haven't made up their mind with what they are going to replace the Endeavour with. One thought is A, a Joint Support Ship part Aux Oiler Replenishment (AOR) part amphibious landing ship. Personally I wouldn't want to be a grunt going on amhib ops in a fuel tanker. Or, B a dedicated AOR vessel. At present the Spanish Armada AOR vessel SPS Cantabria is spending about 10 months training and exercising with the RAN being based out of Sydney. It has been suggested that the RAN is having a real close look at it because they are looking for a replacement to their AOR HMAS Success. The Cantabria was built by the same people who are building the two LHDs and and the last F105 frigate which is the F100 hull that the RAN AWD destroyers are based on. The LHDs are coming in on time and within budget so far. The OPVs and IPVs were built to civilian specs not milspecs so the steel quality not the same. The old IPCs were built to civilian specs and lasted 15 - 20 years before they were replaced. So the IPC & OPV replacement is close to and around FFH (frigate) replacement time. Basically all bar one ship (Endeavour) of the RNZN are due for replacement at same time. That is within current time frame of P3K2 replacement with P8 and whatever else they decide to include for MPA and maritime ISR. Manawanui will be paid off shortly and not replaced.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 12, 2013 19:09:58 GMT 12
You "experts" have all got wonderful crystal balls attached to your armchairs.... the way things are going there probably won't even be an air force by 2020. It will be the Civilian Air Corps.
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Post by ngatimozart on Mar 12, 2013 19:23:50 GMT 12
The pollies will do that if we don't do anything about it.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 12, 2013 19:39:46 GMT 12
But what exactly are you able to do about it. We voted out Labour to stop the rot and voted in another bunch who had the same ideas. There are no alternatives in any of the opposition parties who'll do any more or any better. And sitting around seculating about your dream wishlist of aeroplanes for the NZDF accomplishes nothing.
These types of threads go on ad infinitum with speculation and theory and simply bore me and a lot of other more practical members to tears. And they achieve nothing.
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Post by tfly on Mar 13, 2013 9:01:17 GMT 12
Simple answer to that don't read them!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 13, 2013 10:16:10 GMT 12
I wish, sadly as moderator I have to.
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Post by ngatimozart on Mar 13, 2013 12:00:52 GMT 12
Dave if worse comes to worse we can always mount a couple of shotguns on Bazs Auster ;D You are right about one bunch of pollies being as bad as the other but we have to start somewhere and discussion here is always informative. Tha's what this is a discussion upon theoretical grounds about what may or may not happen. Is this not one of the purposes of this forum? As the discussion progresses we may hopefully learn something. All who participate have something to offer.
What the pollies don't seem to care about is that the disbandment of the ACF, the continual penny pinching with NZDF and it's resultant rundown has seriously negatively impacted NZs diplomatic efforts and military worth in the eyes of our allies, friends, neighbours and potential adversaries. Now that piece was written by an Australian and US team of defence professionals on another site not long ago. They lumped us in with the Phillipines. One difference, the Philipines is in the process of buying 12 KAI F50s from South Korea and reforming its ACF. Our pollies won't admit that about how we are perceived diplomatically and militarilly, but sure as your arse points to the ground that assessment would be pretty close to the mark; I didn't see the term bludger but it wouldn't be far from the truth. How many times do the RAAF, RAN or Aussie Army come here to play now compared to what they used to do pre 2001?
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Post by beagle on Mar 13, 2013 13:37:34 GMT 12
I wish, sadly as moderator I have to. and an underpaid moderator at that but we all love ya.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 13, 2013 14:00:59 GMT 12
"the continual penny pinching with NZDF and it's resultant rundown has seriously negatively impacted NZs diplomatic efforts and military worth in the eyes of our allies, friends, neighbours..."
I see it differently. Most overseas Alliied nations are now going down exactly the same route - grounding squadrons, decommissioning ships, laying off staff, civilianising the military - and I am sure they probably now hail New Zealand as world leaders in the cutback of defence spending.
There's a big difference between what "defence analysts" and armchair experts think is needed and what the actual people who matter in Treasury and Government think, no matter what country you're in, except perhaps China, North Korea and Iran.
You can discuss here till you're blue in the face about what is "needed", what will theoretically in your view happen in ten or twenty years time and what all the other 'experts' say needs to happen too - but it's all useless blather as no-one who talks about it has any power to act, and those who have power to act don't sit around talking about it.
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Post by htbrst on Mar 15, 2013 14:15:13 GMT 12
How about NZ C-130's being fitted Skis....and Sidewinders(!) as per this article ;D At least the quoted $250 million per plane to fit ski's to the current Hercules makes buying a brand new Hercules at about $90 million with skis attached look like a bargain. (sigh) Antarctica's warming temperatures make plane landings impossible By Isaac Davison
New Zealand officials have warned that access to Antarctica is becoming more precarious as warming temperatures damaged the ice runways, making it impossible to land New Zealand Air Force planes. __ snip __ Asked by MPs how much it would cost to fit a New Zealand Hercules C-130 with skis, Mr Sanson said it was a staggering $250 million per plane.
"It's very expensive. You've virtually got to build the plane on top of the skis."
The United States' National Science Foundation was the only country to have fixed skis to a Hercules, and used seven of the aircraft on the ice.
In the middle of the summer, when the ice became "sticky", US planes required "missile-assisted" takeoff. Sidewinder rockets were fixed to the planes at a cost of $200,000 per takeoff.
snip www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10871489
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Post by beagle on Mar 15, 2013 15:09:52 GMT 12
That would be a first, I presume. A C130 firing Sidewinders. woo hoo We have our strike force back.
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Post by Calum on Mar 15, 2013 19:19:47 GMT 12
But what exactly are you able to do about it. We voted out Labour to stop the rot and voted in another bunch who had the same ideas. There are no alternatives in any of the opposition parties who'll do any more or any better. And sitting around seculating about your dream wishlist of aeroplanes for the NZDF accomplishes nothing. These types of threads go on ad infinitum with speculation and theory and simply bore me and a lot of other more practical members to tears. And they achieve nothing. I thought this was a discussion board? And that is what is happening here. Personally I find these threads most interesting. I'm not interested in most of the ww2 or the warbird or civilian stuff. There are threads in those boards that go on ad infinitum. Horses for courses
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Post by tfly on Mar 15, 2013 21:59:38 GMT 12
Hear hear I agree with Calum.
The wide range of topics and views are what make this forum interesting in the first place. Sanitise or limit the topic content may please some but will likely alienate others.
I think the balance is just about right and whilst I understand as moderator it may be tedious to read stuff you aren't interested in (or are tired of) but unfortunately that goes with the territory.
Just my two pence worth
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Post by mcmaster on Mar 15, 2013 22:35:25 GMT 12
yeah seemed bit odd to say discussion of future acquisitions in a modern RNZAF discussion board is unwelcome. If people were rattling on about NZ buying 100 F-22's maybe that's tedious but informed dabate on replacing existing capability is useful. I like reading the discussion too, and history is fine but its...history.
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