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Post by Naki on May 7, 2012 15:19:02 GMT 12
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Post by flyinkiwi on May 7, 2012 16:37:17 GMT 12
I love the last sentence which when paraphrased tells us that the replacement will either be exactly the same, or totally different. It's great to know we have people like the author around to tell us these things...  |
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Post by Naki on May 7, 2012 17:06:15 GMT 12
Yes its really narrowed things down  |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 17:17:37 GMT 12
"the replacement process has already begun with two main options being considered" no doubt one of those is the C-130J...
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Post by beagle on May 7, 2012 17:35:30 GMT 12
I love the last sentence which when paraphrased tells us that the replacement will either be exactly the same, or totally different. It's great to know we have people like the author around to tell us these things... Or it could have been no replacement due to no money. |
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Post by tfly on May 7, 2012 20:43:28 GMT 12
Forgive my ignorance but I was under the impression the current fleet has had millions spent on them for an upgrade that is not yet completed? Are we saying that this upgrade will only last 8 or so years? If so was it worth it?
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Post by camtech on May 7, 2012 20:53:58 GMT 12
Looks like the choice is already made, if the header shot for the article is any indication - no external tanks, so C-130J it must be
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 20:58:28 GMT 12
They would have just chucked a picture of a Herc up there. Wouldn't be an indication I don't think.
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Post by camtech on May 7, 2012 21:25:50 GMT 12
Yes, I am aware of that - just my attempt at sarcasm at the way media illustrate articles
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Post by beagle on May 7, 2012 21:38:13 GMT 12
Pretty sure the replacement will be made wth the B757 replacement in mind as well.
ie, both tactical and strategic
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 7, 2012 22:17:58 GMT 12
Don't worry Tfly, in eight years time the whole team assigned to this replacement programme will have been laid off in cost cutting and they'll have to start again.
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Post by beagle on May 8, 2012 5:11:24 GMT 12
thats very negative thinking Dave.
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Post by bell407 on May 8, 2012 8:40:11 GMT 12
They should just get the C-130J or even the C-130J-30 the stretched version, either way, the Herc is the best in the World at what it does, it is proven in a wide variety of conditions, it is essentially the same as what we have had for decades so infrastructure and crew integration will require very little change.
I don't know but we might even be able to fit the NH 90's into a C-130J-30 or maybe the chopper is too tall? I don't know the entire reason for not being able to fit them into the current Herc's.
C-130J's would also save time and money in terms of commonality with the Aussies, Malaysians, Yanks, Singaporeans etc, almost anywhere we would conceivably operate our Herc's, in training or combat there likely would be support systems and spare parts available, not to mention training and simulator time could be shared with the Aussies if need be and spare parts could be cheaper if we tac an order onto an Aussie order for the same aircraft type.
Mainly, the C-130J is a proven, more than capable design for which we already have experience and support infrastructures in place which would require minimal adaption for the new type if any, this will save costs and for a country like us that is vital.
Another way to go, if the 757's were to be replaced along with the Herc's would be the C-17, again, proven in a wide range of conditions, can almost go anywhere a Herc can and has a greater range, 3 times the carrying capacity of a Herc which would mean we could get away with less aircraft.
It is also used all over the World and our allies use them, the Brits, USA and Aussies all use them, so again parts and training could be integrated to save time and money.
They are however extremely expensive both to purchase and operate, this would mean we don't get enough of them and we would need at least four to ensure at least two could be used ant any given time while others are in maintenance, I know for a fact we could throw an NH 90 into one and fly it anywhere we needed to but I think they are far too cost prohibitive for the RNZAF
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Post by Naki on May 8, 2012 8:48:29 GMT 12
Most C-130Js sold are the stretched verision ....IIRC Italy and the RAF are the only export users fo the standard fuse C-130J.
Malaysia and Singapore are not very good examples of commonality with the J as they only use the H models. Malaysia is in fact the first export country for the A400 which wil replace their Hercs.
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Post by bell407 on May 8, 2012 8:51:41 GMT 12
Sorry, I was under the impression that they were all using the J's now, anyway, the J's are used in most of the places we go to or are likely to go to.
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Post by ngatimozart on May 8, 2012 14:19:11 GMT 12
Most C-130Js sold are the stretched verision ....IIRC Italy and the RAF are the only export users fo the standard fuse C-130J. Malaysia and Singapore are not very good examples of commonality with the J as they only use the H models. Malaysia is in fact the first export country for the A400 which wil replace their Hercs. Not quite right. The following is from Air Force Technology www.airforce-technology.com/projects/hercules/" Stretched C-130J-30
The C-130J-30 is the stretched version of the C-130J. The cargo floor length of the stretched version is increased from 40ft to 55ft which gives a significant increase in the aircraft's airlift capability.
The stretched C-130J-30 can carry eight 463L pallets, 97 litters, 24 CDS (US Container Delivery System) bundles, 128 equipped combat troops or 92 paratroopers.
The first C-130J-30 for the UK RAF was delivered in November 1999 and deliveries of all 15 aircraft ordered were completed in June 2001.
The aircraft is in production for the US Air Force (39 aircraft, the first of which was delivered to the Air National Guard in December 2001), the Royal Australian Air Force (12), the Italian Air Force (ten) and are ordered by the Kuwaiti Air Force (four) and the Danish Air Force (three)." What was made known a month or so back was that it is not just a C130H replacement program that is being studied, but a total RNZAF fixed wing tactical and strategic transport program. On another forum that I lurk on it, was posted yesterday by someone in the know, that Wayne Mapp was keen on the A400 but what is not known, is whether the current Minister has the same policy advisor or not. What will be top priority will be cost and as I said on the other forum, the NZ$250 odd million we have spent on LEP would have been better spent on a staged replacement of C130H with the C130J, maybe the J-30. However what will happen is that in current economic climate even a like for like option is in jeopardy. Since it has been stated, in the ZB item and confirmed separately by the inside source, that two options being looked at, then we maybe realistically looking at a C130J and an C27J combination, but not the surplus USAF C27Js, because Alenia has publicly stated that they will not support or sustain any of the USAF aircraft that are resold by the USAF. There is the commonality between the C130J and the C27J that would appeal. We would be able to purchase both through the USAF FMS program and tie into the USPACFOR or USNPACFLT Supply Train. However, as has been pointed out to me in the other forum in last 13 hours, the C130J cannot carry the LAV or NH90. Secondly, that the decision will be made in 2015 and it has been suggested that by 10 years time, the Kiwi will strengthen against the Euro and be neutral against the Greenback, with the Greenback strengthening against the Euro. Thirdly, with very recent political changes in Europe more production slots on the A400 production line will be freed up, as some European nations further reduce the size of their A400 orders. This could have the effect of Airbus Military reducing the price in order to keep production slots at current levels. They have been reducing the C295 price markedly, in order to keep production line running, as evidenced in their pitch to the Aussie government in February / March 2012. Therefore, another option maybe viable, in that it could be an A400 / C295 mix, especially if the NZG can really put the squeeze on Airbus Military on the price. We are a small nation, but something like a three or four A400 and a six or eight C295 buy is still a big sale. However, there is the recent agreement between NZ and Australia around Defence purchasing to consider and that will have some bearing upon the decision. I think that a C17 buy is a pipe dream because we cannot justify the cost nor the need. |
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Post by Naki on May 8, 2012 14:45:29 GMT 12
The information above is bit out of date - for example the RDAF now have 4 C-130J-30s. The RAF and Italian Air Forces also use both the C-130J-30s and C-130Js (known as C4s and C5s in RAF service).
As you say taking into account the joint purchase decision with Australia I guess the belated Caribou replacement decision will be looked at closely
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Post by ngatimozart on May 8, 2012 15:29:23 GMT 12
As far as I believe the bou replacement was the C27J with a request for pricing and availability for 10 aircraft through FMS being lodged and the US Congress formally notified. However since the Gillard government has deferred the purchase stating that it wanted to wait until the ADF underspend was finalised. Aussie pundits are picking that the C27J purchase will not proceed and the monies budgeted will be utilised for other spending and that the bou replacement will disappear into the annals of history as a dead project.
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Post by beagle on May 8, 2012 19:28:43 GMT 12
over 2400 C130's produced, 250 of them being J models
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Post by beagle on May 8, 2012 19:45:48 GMT 12
C130J-30 and C27 buy  ? Would that be the C27 for twin engine training plus tactical work. Bit of an overkill for training and the C130J-30 for the same tactical work we do now. Sounds unlikely and a bit stupid. Would others who have worked on or flown in C130's agree that at times the cargo lifted has been well under sized for the C130 and other times "wish we had a bigger aircraft" We need some slightly smaller for internal / pacific island work such as C27 or C295 plus a strategic airlifter such as a A400, which could also be used for internal or pacific island work if the need arose. Not 100% sure on what the pax numbers are for the A400, but pretty sure most people would prefer to travel on something such as the B757 if going to the states or Europe etc |
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