''We have run out of beer'', ''This flight is bein

[baronbeeza]

www.theage.com.au/victoria/the-law-of-the-bungles-grounds-unruly-alligator-20120608-201bm.html


Obviously going back to get some more beer. Adelaide is probably a little far.

[corsair67]

That is seriously f*%ked up!

Thank goodness they've gone into receivership after CASA finally grew a pair and grounded them.

[gunny]

That is f@^#ed up but the Judge is out of order by not stating facts insted of his opinion
Biggles himself wouldn't let them out of the hangar, much less Justice Bernard Murphy who presided over the case.

In one instance, repairs to an exhaust system were welded together in a farm shed from ''a scrap exhaust system'.
And who has'nt made emergency repairs?"that is what makes kiwi and aussies individuals, our no9 wire fixes,And exhaust system was fixed to keep back pressures even so the engine ran well and no noise complaints. I remember a similar thing being done on the flying doctors!

[baronbeeza]

Have to disagree Gunny... I have done the military, airline and GA thing. Travelled all about the world doing it and mostly in GA.

This is a company doing RPT or Charter, something that is normally extremely regulated.
I have flown alongside pilots that have been like this, in Africa and the Pacific.... not in a real world country.

No room for ANY pilot repairs in my book, they know JS.

If you know what you are doing you get a LAME licence. And yes I have done get home repairs.
Sitting on an atoll in the middle of the Pacific weeks away from rescue does give you some incentive... for a ferry flight.

Fanning Island is pretty remote, Washington Island is getting 'further out there'.

This Gator thing was a company being run-down in a shonky fashion. I was considering working for them as both engineer and pilot under the old owner. Craig had a good reputation. The present owner has been getting knocked on forums for the past two years. I just can't believe it came to this.. an inexperienced pilot trying to take-off in a defective machine.
It appears he was under extreme pressure to complete the flight.... hardly an excuse and rightly so CASA are seeking answers.
I don't see how that company could expect to keep going.

You may have been thinking CM was still looking after the business but he sold out some years ago. It seems like the new guy had little regard for industry protocols, let alone the regs.


The stall warning on that machine was blaring almost the entire duration of the 'flight', - and yet he still input some extreme bank angles. I think they were extremely lucky they did not lose everyone.

[baz62]

Well that flight certainly went to hell in a hand basket!!
I laughed at this comment in the article:

"Alligator somewhat optimistically reported the drama as a ''low risk'' incident.
On that criteria the Hindenburg had a parking accident!"

[baronbeeza]

Civil Aviation Safety Authority v Alligator Airways Pty Limited (No 3) [2012] FCA 601 (8 June 2012)



28 April 2012 – Emergency landing aircraft VH-WOV

The last of the recent incidents relied on by CASA occurred on 28 April 2012 when the single engine Gippsland Aeronautics GA8TC Airvan registered VH-WOV carrying six fare paying passengers suffered a failure of its turbo charger. The failure was noticed by the pilot prior to take-off from Kununurra Airport but he still attempted takeoff. While the aircraft was able to become airborne it could not climb above 30 feet, and then suffered a further loss of power so that its height was about 5 to 10 feet. The pilot attempted to slowly return to the airport rather than landing in adjacent paddocks. It was difficult to do so because the aircraft could not easily be banked without risking a wing touching the ground. The pilot was eventually able to land the aircraft on the rough ground beside one of the taxi-ways at the airport.
Video footage of the flight taken by a passenger was admitted into evidence. It provided a chilling insight into the unfolding of this incident. The video showed that when finally about to land one wing of the aircraft came within about 2 feet of striking the ground.
Again, Alligator did not deny this concerning event. It did not attempt to argue that taking off in this aircraft was not a serious risk to air safety. Mr Street’s evidence was also that the pilot’s decision to attempt to return to the airfield rather than attempting an emergency landing straight ahead in the adjacent paddocks, involved an incredible risk.

[johnnyfalcon]

That video is frightening to watch! Talk about poor airmanship and decision-making!!

[flyjoe180]

One lucky group of people to have made it back to Earth voluntarily.

[chinapilot]

He was working his way up the ladder with a charter operator...very easy to rant on about airmanship and decision making ( found over the years that the ones that criticize the most are usually lacking in it themselves) but unless you have worked in GA it's not easy to imagine some of the pressures...it is not a perfect world.
The 'stall warning' is,well, just that and I can remember it being standard practice with one operator to put a matchstick in the vane to stop the annoying sound...
As for pilot repairs GA in some of the remote areas wouldn't be possible without them...but then again the military weren't around to show us mere pilots how to do it so we just had to use good old Kiwi ingenuity

[baronbeeza]

Been there done that myself. There is no need for pressure in GA.... you draw your line in the sand and stand by it. Dicking around with the stall warning is madness.... and yes I have seen the CB pulled in my time.
The stall warning vane is incredibly expensive for just a switch. Over $800.

Pilots have no idea how to repair an aircraft, many struggle to recognise a defect.
I am all for Kiwi ingenuity but if you are that good you get a LAME licence.
Pilots working in with the LAME are another matter but again it is difficult to find one with any ability.

I have worked in GA as engineer and pilot for many decades, and all over.
The truth is that the pilots have an abysmal knowledge of the regulations. Their tech knowledge is generally even worse.

A pilot may know Parts 61 and 91 but Parts 43, 21 and 66 would be foreign to most.
I work some months every year on Charter operations such as Alligator and in remote areas of Oz, - I have never witnessed anything like that.
That pilots is very lucky to have survived the incident as lightly as he has. He has been writing on another forum and he is saying he has learnt by the episode.
You would think others in similar operations will learn from it also. It is certainly graphical enough.

[chinapilot]

It's all very well drawing a line in the sand but sometimes in GA a stick to do so isn't always around...
As for your experience of pilots not being able to repair aircraft or recognize defects maybe they don't like reporting them or 'working in' with someone with 'attitude'...

[baronbeeza]

I have to agree about the attitude. Some of the guys in Darwin will be having a chuckle reading this. Crossing the GA apron was an ordeal

I think the stick you refer to would be the Chief Pilot. Many of these junior pilots are on their first flying job, many have never really worked in an environment where they have had to make tough decisions before. A good Chief Pilot will have had the experience to provide guidance and at the same time be a good debater when dealing with the Owner and Chief Engineer.

Some companies run very smoothly, and have no problem operating within the rules.
I am pretty sure it came down to strong and sound management.
Would that be the difference between Alligator MkI and Aligator MkII ?

By all accounts the last CP at Alligator was one of the better ones, but as the CASA report said it was a change occurring a little too late. He had an uphill battle on every front.